B to Z
Mental health and wellness
B to Z
Ink, Resilience, and the Southern California Vibe: Kevin Childs and Derek Billingsley in Tattoo Artistry
Join Kevin Childs and Derek Billingsley, two seasoned tattoo artists with over 30 years of combined experience, as they share their captivating journeys in the ever-evolving world of tattoo artistry on the B2Z Podcast. We celebrate personal milestones and discuss the profound impact of family life on their creative endeavors. Discover the allure of Southern California's vibrant tattoo scene through Derek's eyes, where the perfect motorcycle weather and spirited traditional tattoo culture bring a unique charm to Orange County's bustling studios like Newport Tattoo and HB Tattoo.
Our conversation takes a deeper turn as we explore the resilience and growth born from personal and professional challenges. From the struggle of losing homes to the triumph of rebuilding client bases, Kevin and Derek reveal the lessons learned through adversity and the strength it takes to thrive in the tattoo industry. We emphasize the importance of learning from everyone, no matter their status, and the humility required to embrace innovation and creativity. Social media's transformative role in the industry also comes under the spotlight, as platforms like Instagram reshape client attraction and studio dynamics.
Finally, delve into the creative processes that define these artists' unique styles—whether it's spontaneous bursts of creativity or meticulously planned masterpieces. We reflect on the balance between traditional craftsmanship and modern innovation, and the passion that fuels their art despite the industry's commercialization. The episode wraps with stories of personal inspiration and triumphs, promising more engaging content in part two. Stay tuned for further insights into the dynamic and fulfilling world of tattoo artistry.
All right, hello, hello, hello. This is Zach Bautista with the B2Z Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, as always, mr Brandon May.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody.
Speaker 1:And two really, really cool kick-ass guests. Cool, I got Kevin Childs we're actually here at his home right now and Derek Billingsley.
Speaker 3:What's up, guys?
Speaker 2:Two heavy hitters man.
Speaker 4:Season 2.
Speaker 2:Just began. We're bringing in some heavy hitters. I wanted to start off this episode by saying Congratulations on your baby. Zach is now a father.
Speaker 4:This is a new episode.
Speaker 2:He's probably tired as hell you know he ain't slept, we were just talking about all kinds of shit outside I appreciate that guys he just had a little boy, um, and I'm not gonna give names and all that stuff, just because that's his business.
Speaker 2:But yeah congratulations to him yes, sir, I appreciate you guys uh, these fellows we have are coming on right now our fathers too. Um, you know, I only bring people on that I respect. Uh, these guys are definitely people that I respect in the tattoo industry. Uh, their work speaks for itself. Please go check them out on their instagrams, um, and you guys can. You can be, you could be the judge of that, but I think they're fire. Um, thanks, man. Yeah, yeah, man. Um, both very different styles, but could be called traditional artists, which is interesting, one of the things I enjoy the most. Um, they've had a long, illustrious careers. Um, traveled around the world, work with some of the heavy hitters, so what the information you guys are getting today is not something that you would often get. So this is a treat. Here you go. You know what I mean. B to z uh, kevin childs, derrick billingsley, uh, let's start. Um, and this is the first interview with two people. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:So yeah, this is a big moment for us too, yeah it's probably a different dynamic, huh yeah glad, you guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you know I was thinking oh, you know, do I do individually based. So I was like, yeah, but we could bring them on separately after that. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:So I want to speak as a whole.
Speaker 2:How long have you guys been tattooing?
Speaker 3:16 years now 16 years.
Speaker 4:I just counted it 17.
Speaker 2:17 years now.
Speaker 4:I've been doing it longer than I haven't been actually.
Speaker 2:All in Southern California, nah.
Speaker 3:It's been all over the country at this point. Living-wise, I've tattooed all over the world at this point, but I've been in Southern California since 2016.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's one of the things I thought was cool. He'll be traveling around. He's been all over the place.
Speaker 3:What was your favorite spot, derek, here? Orange County specifically. That's where I moved to, lived on Huntington Beach for a while.
Speaker 2:That's crazy. Orange County would be like the spot out of all the spots.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man, when you ride motorcycles and you come out here and do nice weather year-round, I don't have to shelf my bike for whatever period of time.
Speaker 4:Man. It's just a place for traditional man, like if you go to orange county. That's traditional tattooing. I think you know what I mean above everything, like man.
Speaker 3:Every other move was like all right, job opportunity, cool, let's move there, let's do this, let's step in my career in the right direction. This was like I want to spend money that I've worked my ass off for all these years, let's go have fun. So me and my actually had a roommate. I lived in nashville before here and, uh, he was in the music industry as a tour manager and stuff. So we just so happened I was out in Orange County city of Orange guest spotting. This dude had just got off Warped Tour so he was out here too. At the same time we were lucky enough to have two friends give us bikes to ride. He was already my roommate in Nashville and we just looked at each other on the ride and we're like, hey, dog, are we moving here or what? Yeah, and we're like, hey, dog, are we moving here or what?
Speaker 3:But we had just got the house, so it's like we already knew, I think six months into the lease we're like, hey, after this six months we're outro, we're moving. So I had somebody to split the bills and do all the shit and move out here and it was just made seamless.
Speaker 4:I think that's the fucked up thing about California. Man, honestly, you know what I?
Speaker 3:mean I do the same thing you do that's exactly what I did too.
Speaker 4:I went right down orange county. After I was down there for seven years tattooing too. I mean, fuck, who doesn't want to live by the beach dude? You know what I mean. And the weather, and at that time too, before before being a dad man, orange county's fun, it's party man. It's a good time, especially tattooing. What shops were you at? So I was at Newport Tattoo and then every once in a while I'd sit at HB Tattoo Hang out with those guys.
Speaker 3:That was the original Newport, the original one down on the peninsula. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because that one I don't even know where that one is it's on the peninsula. Yeah, yeah, I like.
Speaker 4:Huntington. That shop was really cool, though, man. I mean, dude, it's been there forever and then walk-in base-wise because everyone's coming in there from you know, vacationing, and shit, dude, it was slammed all the time. I mean, that's how you learn to tattoo faster, dude. It was just little quick shit. You get them in, get them out. It was vacation tattooing, or is it vacation vibe tattooing with regulars, vacation vibe? I mean, that was the other thing too. That was hard to build clientele, because a lot of people weren't staying, they were just coming in getting little souvenirs and taking off. You know what I mean. But uh, yeah, little shit like that all day long. You have more, you can bang out more money you made. So I dug it, man. The vibe was fun.
Speaker 2:I had a good time down there yeah, I fucking, I worked in this place. Saint thomas compass rose at a landing shop, yeah I went down there he was that he had fired everybody in the shop. He came, everybody was fucking around and he fired everybody on a fucking island probably one of the dumbest things you can fucking do. He's in the middle of the ocean. He ain't gonna find no artists, you know, so he's like yeah so I go down there and I start working.
Speaker 2:First week there was like a hurricane. The thermofax goes out, so everything is hand stenciled. But the cruise ships are coming in and everybody's getting these little tattoos and I thought it was the stupidest fucking thing in the world. Just because it's like man, you can't even get in the water. Now you fucked. They were getting in the water, they're still going.
Speaker 4:Hey dude, I was telling them they could. They're all. Can I go in there? I'm like fuck it, go ahead. You'll be fine, I'm not touching it up, you'll be fine. You'll be fine I was like no man.
Speaker 2:this doesn't make sense to me, but OCE is definitely one of the hearts of tattooing out here. They used to have, they have what was it?
Speaker 3:Muse Inc out there too. Yeah, we did that a few years, yeah, and that was their convention.
Speaker 2:They need to do something like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, they have that. And then the big one for real tattooing was Ink and Iron.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's the one I'm talking about At the Queen Mary Long Beach. Ink and Iron was at the Queen Mary, so that's not the one Muse Inc is Costa Mesa, the Fairgrounds yeah, that one's cool too.
Speaker 3:More of a local show, right, Mostly local artists. Ink and Iron was the who's who of Southern California, right.
Speaker 4:Well, I don't know man, I mean Muse Inc for a while was taking a shot. Dude, they had a good lineup for a while, man. There were some heavy guys that were going in and out of there and then take it over. They had, like, I mean, the pool you had with the bands that were coming through there and shit, it was out of control man and the cars kind of put a little weird thing with it, because it became more about people that didn't care about the tattoos they're like oh I'm gonna go see blink or this or that, which is cool, but I did the same thing.
Speaker 4:This is about tattooing to me.
Speaker 3:You know I'm here to make money and if not me.
Speaker 4:I was like I'm taking a break because you're a local.
Speaker 3:I flying in.
Speaker 1:I'm paying for a hotel. I'm paying for the booth.
Speaker 3:I'm not here to fucking bump elbows.
Speaker 2:I got bills. I'm trying to you got to balance it out first Right and then party.
Speaker 3:That's the good thing. With Instagram Cracking off, it's like cool, you can do these events. Boom, you want to book appointments? Sick.
Speaker 2:Your trip's.
Speaker 4:I have never flown to a convention. The furthest one I've gone to is I don't know which one. As far as Reno and Sacramento, it's probably about the same distance. Yeah, it was cool, you know.
Speaker 2:I like getting out of my town and seeing everybody else. Was that the Cap City one? It was City of Trees, sacramento, yep, city of Trees Do you still like doing conventions?
Speaker 4:I do.
Speaker 2:I like conventions. Yeah, just because, like I don't like okay. So I like the vibe of convention. I like wearing my fresh-ass clothes. Hold up, we're talking about shit.
Speaker 4:You feel like I like to wear my fresh-ass clothes. I came up to the booth. I saw you.
Speaker 2:Having my table laid out.
Speaker 4:He had a presence for a minute. I walked up. You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean, we had OnlyFans models in the shed. I had my homies in there drinking and we had bottles, dave's doing yay next to me. It was a good time. You know what?
Speaker 4:I mean.
Speaker 2:It was a good time. That part I like. I feel like there's always this rival, competition type, ego overtone with any convention that I don't like because you can. You can meet somebody outside of a convention. They'll be like oh, what's up, buddy, you know, and you see them at the convention and they're fucking cool guys, because they got creases in their shirt. That day.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and it's just like I don't fuck with that bro like yeah, yeah that at that point you're a bitch to me for sure you know what I mean if I see you like and I see you're supposed to speak and like, like bro you a bitch to me, you know okay, that's a lot of the the convention circuit.
Speaker 3:It varies within styles of conventions yeah when it's invite, only when it's, uh, just traditional tattoos. When it's black and gray, there's a different vibe, for sure there's. There's cool guy, traditional dudes that most of the dudes who actually do really good traditional don't fuck with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:Like people put them on this pedestal and most dudes are like. Those dudes are lame. Yeah, no, because the real ones are usually cool. We're friends with whoever, and that's what I was getting ready to say.
Speaker 2:Like put on the other end of the spectrum when somebody's cool as fuck.
Speaker 3:Oh, dude yeah.
Speaker 2:And they give you a print and they're like it's tight too, like I met cartoon, yeah, I met cartoon. I was like yo look at my shit. You know, like that happens at a convention. Yeah, it creates opportunity. I don't. It's not that I want to be in there, because what I was losing my house, losing my shit we already paid for it, trying to get shirts and we're about to make the move to our shop at the same time.
Speaker 2:I remember that and that's why I had, it was the first and then I told him the first and it should have been like the 12th low key just because I needed time to kind of calm down after.
Speaker 1:So I was like fuck when I was in there.
Speaker 2:It's a whirlwind, yeah, but it all worked out and sometimes I feel like the more pressure you put on yourself, the better man it makes you, because you like you go through things rather than just oh definitely you know the the shallow end forever definitely those are the days you grow right like you don't grow when everything's good, like I talked to you about, like hitting the gym and stuff right it's easy to go to the gym.
Speaker 3:When you're motivated, I feel good. Boom, boom got my pre-workout, I'm ready to go. I ate my meal, I'm doing good. It's the days when you wake up like motherfucker I do not want to get out of bed, that's right. You go to the gym. That's the day you feel like you got the most growth and it's the same thing with everything in life.
Speaker 3:It's like cool, this really bad thing happens, it's not. Don't look at it and be like, oh, woe is me. It's like, man, that thing happened for you, not to you. You know what I mean. There's a big difference between the two.
Speaker 4:When you look at it like man, I'm gonna be strong, and it just shows you what you can take and what you're capable of a hundred percent man.
Speaker 4:I mean, I've been through that situation back when I mean, fuck dude, I've walked away from a shop. I had a relationship fall apart. Dude, I went from losing, like you know, being in this big house to go into like a 400 square foot little place with my daughter. Man, kick and just kick myself in the ass and, uh, you start to build yourself back up. Do you realize you? You're like, dude, that shit ain't shit, all that shit's just shit. And you can all build it up and work harder. Fuck, dude, it ain't going to stop you. You know what I mean? That builds character, dude.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you guys this, circling back to the convention circuit and then your guys' growth as artists was there any kind of mentor or heavy hitter out there that you really looked up to or you had a memorable event with or taught you something? Taught you something different or different way to look at things as you, as you were going through your career?
Speaker 3:um, fucking question yeah, I'm sure there's endless things I could say, because I I've always been one with such a humble mind that I've learned valuable things from apprentices from shop helps, like even ways to make a stencil. I learned from an apprentice, like, but if you have this ego about yourself, you're not going to learn nothing. So it's hard to say one artist by any means, uh, with that, though you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Like it's kind of just an accumulation, I think, of years, of just circling around different people and different styles and the way they work, and yeah, that's a big benefit.
Speaker 3:Some people that only work in a certain style, like my mentor, my actual mentor I don't think he's ever done a real traditional tattoo his whole life. He could say oh, I do it because most people say they can do it and they do it and you're like, oh, you can't do it.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. It's very apparent when dudes don't do traditional and try to do it, my mentor never did traditional Back in the day dude, he would do a tribal sleeve one day. The next day he'd be doing a black and gray realism portrait. The next day he'd be doing new school fucking red background. You know what I mean? Just everything. And that's what a tattooer is still to me to this day, even though I do mostly what I do. Fuck, I just did a tribal phoenix the other day. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:I'll just tattoo whatever, as long doing it like I'm here to make people happy like you know, I can't all just be girl heads and skulls and shit which I mean it'd be cool if it was a lot of it is but but yeah, cool it was because it seems like I do a little bit of all that shit. What I do the other day, fucking purple and green clouds, yeah it goes in.
Speaker 3:It goes in phases, because then you'll get where you're doing a bunch of cool shit. Yeah, it's just part of part of that which ain't bad.
Speaker 4:I'm a noggin, I'm just saying I do a little bit of everything, man, it's still better than any other job, that's true.
Speaker 3:Imagine working for a boss, an actual boss.
Speaker 4:No, I haven't done that shit. I remember the last time I filled out an application.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I remember the last time I filled out an application.
Speaker 2:I think about that shit often. I think about that shit often. I'm going to bring it into that area, dude, your tattoo, or fucking, especially with these guys. Right, fucking, look at derrick, he's like I'll fuck you up, get a job. I'll fuck you up. You ain't shit. No, like I think about it all the time, like, even with their strong fucking mindsets towards the thing, um, there's things that a father needs to do and that is bigger than the tattoo world, and that is to feed their family. Yep, um, which I get. Tattooing is in a state now where people are pulling in part-time jobs, they're jumping from shops, they're moving from loyalty to gain percentages, they're doing private shops, they're tattooing from home. You know what I mean Like permanently. Like legends now are like forget, like I'm gonna get a studio, or how do you guys feel about that? Um, what direction do you think it should go in?
Speaker 4:damn, that's a tough question even answer. What direction do I think it should go in? Yeah, I don't even know how, I don't even know how it could even change and and I mean, I feel like the train has gotten so derailed, dude, that I don't think there's any way to bring it back. I don't think, I don't think anybody really wants to. God damn, I don't even know how to answer that dude I tell people I'm fighting to tattoo.
Speaker 2:I fight to tattoo every client that I get.
Speaker 4:I'm fighting for that well, the thing is too, though, so many people that are pulling out that same motherfucker?
Speaker 4:well, I think a lot of that has to do with I. I got to bring it back to social media. I think social media is the major problem with a lot of that. As far as you know, people opening private studios and shit like that right, nobody wants to work for a reputable street shop anymore. Um, because a lot of times you don't need a fucking street shop to stay busy because you've got social media, you've got Instagram, I mean.
Speaker 4:Right, I mean that's the way I think about it, so a lot of times these guys are like, fucking well, I don't need to work at a street shop because I'm pulling all these clients off my instagram anyway, so I'm just going to open this little studio. Now. You know, even up on the loan, we got like how many? 30 private studios, probably right around the corner. You know what I mean? I don't think. I think, as long as social media it's that accessible without people just walking in, it's not going to go back to the way it was. There's no way. Yeah, it's not just.
Speaker 3:I guess youtube would be considered a type of social media right youtube kind of is yeah but there's so much information on there and it's like the barrier to entry of tattooing has gotten so low. They've demonized people. Uh, you have to treat people a certain way to teach them. You can't teach someone who's got an ego. So when you come in, just like the military, you're gonna get shit talked to you. And if I don't talk shit to you and I ignore you, I fucking hate you, right. But if I like you and I see potential and I want you to get better, I'm gonna talk shit to you and then you know what that does is it builds up a level of humbleness in you that then you can learn. Not only that, if you don't have that shit, why are you going to treat anything with respect if you haven't fought for it right?
Speaker 3:100 fight day in and day out, wearing fucking stupid shit outside, washing cars, fucking beating up random people because your mentor says swing on that fool. Yes, sir, you know what I mean. If you're not doing that shit, this shit's whatever. Dude, I don't have a level of respect. Like I was taught, you have to tattoo for 10 years before you're able to teach anybody to tattoo. Yeah, that shit's gone.
Speaker 3:I felt like that was opening shops too, One shop will have five apprentices at a time and he's too big an asshole to have a real crew of actual tattooers and all he has is a bunch of little fucking minions. They all suck at tattooing, so the barrier to entry has gotten so fucking low that I think the only way that gets corrected is what we're seeing currently. Right, everyone can agree the economy is fucked and tattooing is feeling it really hard. Good tattooers, lifetime tattooers, who we eat, breathe and sleep with this shit yeah or slower than we've ever been are we still able to pay our bill?
Speaker 4:yes, thankfully, like we're great is that economy and going to rid out these is that economy, or is that just the amount of tattooers that are around here too?
Speaker 3:that's it, that's too many tattooers definitely part of it, for sure. But I think what's going to happen? Because of the economy, a lot of these people aren't going to continue to stay afloat. I know shops that I mean. What shop was that you were? I think you were telling me, or steve someone was telling me a shop that's been there a long time in riverside elizabeth street. Yeah, are they close, like possibly closing, like I've heard other shops at?
Speaker 2:least just because of the the constant change of uh, everybody to sell.
Speaker 3:They want more money for rent.
Speaker 2:Everybody wants money.
Speaker 4:Oh shit, dude they just did that shit to my uncle's shop down in. San Diego, lucky yeah sold it right underneath him, dude. He was like waiting for his lease. He's like, dude, what's up, what's going on? And they fucking sold it.
Speaker 3:The only thing that's correct is a weeding out process, the real ones who have from the get-go we've. I mean, how many years did you prepare for the winter? Right, as a real tattooer. It gets slow in the winter, so what do you do you stack back a little coins.
Speaker 4:All these new dudes are like oh my god, it's slow.
Speaker 3:It's like motherfucker, how long you've been tattooing, yeah well, it goes back to the old apprenticeship shit.
Speaker 4:You're saying that's why we stick into it so hard. You, because we already know we've been fucking beat up. Well, we know how to stick through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could say I'm salty right now. I'm salty as fuck right now.
Speaker 4:I know I see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I see you walk into the shop. I'm like fuck Brandon's on one.
Speaker 1:And for those of you who don't know, I'll give you a little history. So when Brandon came to work, you guys all work at the same shop, at Breakthrough Tattoo. Yeah, and how long have you guys worked there?
Speaker 4:I've been there about four and a half years now.
Speaker 3:About 2020, I started the longest, right, yeah, I think so now, yeah, shop's going on. It's been there 13, 13 years, yeah, and I'm, besides, the owner, he's the current longest artist there. I me and my wife lived in rancho. I was still was doing the commute back to orange county tattooing all the time she was pregnant yeah baby was doing march.
Speaker 3:So february, the month before on my my let me get my ducks in a row, let me. I didn't even know any shops. I would have moved out here years ago, but I didn't know any legit tattoo shop like traditional shops in the area out this way, I only knew orange county. You know what I mean. So finally, uh, that I mean push the narrative. I had to, I had to do some some research, popped in a few shops, feel it out, came into this shop. I had knew his name, never met him, just from the orange county kind of scene. We kind of know who's who. You know just part of the scene is small, as as big as we were talking about it being. It is very small of good tattooers. You all kind of know each other usually. So, yeah, february, I made the move, uh, to break through, so I haven't even been there that long either so where?
Speaker 1:where's, where's the saltiness? Now, now let's, let's, let's jump back.
Speaker 2:Where's the saltiness yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Is it hot?
Speaker 4:You guys want me to turn this fan on. I didn't mean to cut out on this.
Speaker 2:Would you guys want to it? So he let me know and I'll turn the fuck around. All right, keep going. I didn't mean to cut it off. Good, kick it to you, okay. All right, this room gets hot, man. I'm just telling you why am I salty? I'm salty just because I moved.
Speaker 2:Um, a lot of my clientele is not coming there, um, and I feel the pressure and it's in a time when there's not a lot to pull from. You know what I mean. There's not a lot to pull from. You know what I mean. There's not a lot of clientele to pull from. I have to learn the area. I have to meet people within the community. I have to build new relationships again. You know a lot of the way and how I work through. Tattooing is people that I fuck with. You know what I mean. People that I want to sit with, people that I'm inspired by, people I can learn from. So you know it's a bummer that a lot of my clientele didn't come and that's cool. You guys, like I, don't forget a fucking thing, and if I see you, you know what.
Speaker 4:I mean, I don't know I still think you got a little bit of time, though still to be completely honest with you Because I've done that jump a few times, I'm literally getting shit like oh, that's far.
Speaker 2:My in-cap was like man, that's fucked up, yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:I'm like yeah, it's a question. Yeah, is this the first time you're tattooing an area you're not? This is the first time ever that I've okay that's why yeah yeah, I moved across the country pre-social media how was that?
Speaker 1:I made it, how was that built up?
Speaker 4:the clientele you got to put that time in there, man, people got to know you're there get this.
Speaker 3:So I apprenticed in oklahoma city. First job opportunity I got outside oklahoma city. The coolest place to go outside of oklahoma is dallas dallas is only three hours away.
Speaker 3:That's right so I went down there, did some guest spots, got a job opportunity. I started working this job. I uh dude, I didn't have no clientele. I think that's when I first. So when I first started instagram, it was a photo editing app, wasn't a social media. It was literally like all these other apps you get on there, put a little filter, boom oh, look at that, that looks cool.
Speaker 1:A lot of people really look stuff like that, yeah, yeah, yeah that's when you saw the hashtag.
Speaker 4:you're're like what the fuck is that? Yeah, what is that thing? It was like hey, make an Instagram like make an answer.
Speaker 3:I've seen that. I know that it making it, I don't need that shit. And he's like no, it's like it's like your best tattoos. Treat people right. That's the first step. But back in the day we there was places that were a penny, a flyer, right, so I'd make a flyer and you could go to this company and you could tell them hey, I want you to hit uh plano, dallas, lower grainville, all the areas you wanted it to hit.
Speaker 3:You could specify I want only houses or I want apartments. I want houses and you would literally pay them a penny per flyer. And I made a tattoo flyer with, at the time, very shitty tattoos, right yeah, I've been tattooing very long at all.
Speaker 3:I shouldn't have mentioned that at all, but I put together front and back shop address on the on one side phone number, that general bullshit and the other bunch of shitty tats. Right, and I would do this all the time. I would pay a penny, a flyer and they literally would go to these houses and flyer, I mean fucking everywhere.
Speaker 4:Oh shit.
Speaker 3:And I got booked up from it.
Speaker 4:Oh shit.
Speaker 3:And I just continued to tattoo. And then Instagram slowly developed because I started painting a lot, started creating my own art, and then I was like well, I want to build up a clientele of my stuff, so when you're wanting? To do that you've got to cut the cost, you've got to make stuff a little cheaper, to have better quality tattoos to show people and then, once people start seeing that, people get what they see.
Speaker 2:I have discounted flash going right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have discounted flash going right now, that is a good idea.
Speaker 2:I post a daily discounted.
Speaker 3:That is a good idea that does a daily discounted flash in that area specifically for somebody to walk for sure. The only way you could get it is it's definitely humbling. I will say that, brandon. Oh, it's a hundred percent for sure even me, dude, I just left orange county and it's, I'm, still I'm, I'm, well, it's it's busy.
Speaker 4:It's starting to show. It's starting to show now that they're starting to figure out where you're at so yeah, but it always takes a little bit of time yeah, always. Yeah, I mean, I had that same problem too when I went from here to orange county, when I came back from orange county here, same fucking thing.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean notice the difference in clientele people that are really serious about the tattoos. They'll continue to travel. It's humbling because you'll you'll do tattoos in an area and only that area and then you'll get the like back in new york is the same oh like shannon needs to come in and finish his sleeve right, I'm calling him out on the but you get people that
Speaker 3:go to you, they go to you because you're convenient, because you're close or they like you or this or that. But when you get people that are like, all right, I'm driving wherever this guy is right, that's when you're like, okay, I'm doing things. It's different.
Speaker 2:It's a different thing like it's easy to get tattooed locally, but it's a necessary evil it is it is for growth it's crucial I could 100 put myself back in the same situation where I was not growing and I felt like I was focused on the wrong things and taking for granted what tattooing is. This is an opportunity to do cool shit around cool people. You know what I mean. And draw and fucking do art. You know what I mean. Like that's a, like I get to do that shit and get paid for it. Like I want to get back to that rather than trying to be this fucking businessman. And I wanted to get back to my family too, you know I haven't, really I haven't got to that point yet the money's got to come first, and then I can get back to my family.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean I will say too uh, give you kudos and give these guys kudos. I always pay attention when he compliments the artist and he so he, when he first told me he was going to break through, he goes oh yeah, in cap. He goes. Look these guys up, derrick, kevin. And that's when I looked at my dog. I was like, okay, all right, yeah, you guys got some fucking hit me. He goes I'm going there to learn because I'm gonna put my head down. I'm gonna fucking learn from these guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's all yeah, that's, that was the right words out of his mouth.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, that's essentially why, you get job opportunities right, yeah nobody wants to deal with you, don't think they fucking know it all well, not that too. You don't really want to be the best guy in your shop either. You want to go somewhere where these guys are doing clean shit. That's the only way you're going to learn.
Speaker 2:It's like anything.
Speaker 4:It's like skateboarding, right? Remember when your kid skateboarded? Same damn thing. Dude, I want to be around the guys who are doing some shit, shit, so I can learn.
Speaker 2:That's what it's all about tattooing. There is no fucking in between. Either your working on my shit, I paint all the time you guys see that shit, I'm trying to match the pace. I'm learning the pace right, right exception of what's really good.
Speaker 3:Changes, though, right oh yeah, when you start out like, uh, I still look at my shit sometimes, right, but I'm saying I started tattooing in oklahoma city with no social nothing, and it's whatever was maybe in the last issue of tattoo magazine, or maybe who your cousin got tattooed by whatever local guys. Whoever was the best, that's the best tattoo you've ever seen. That's what.
Speaker 3:That's what you thought was really good right and then you start to travel, you start to get exposed and if you're lucky enough to be in a mecca like southern california was with tattooing. There's dudes here that only have good tattoos. It's fucking amazing like 30 year old tattoos that are amazing, but a lot of places didn't have that. So now it's like you're over exposure to great tattooing that, if you're getting bad tattoos that's on you you're a fucking idiot.
Speaker 4:You did no research. That's one thing. Right like nowadays, there's good tattoos everywhere.
Speaker 2:You can find them, you know uh, so that's one thing like I've been lucky with. I've been around some dope ass fucking tattooers from the beginning of shit and like now, my taste is like, oh man, fucking caviar dog, you know, I got shit. I got shit lasered off.
Speaker 3:That I thought was like the fucking shit. My mentor's tattoos right, yeah. I got stuff lasered off because I was like not that it was bad, but it just wasn't me right. It just was like man like all right, dude, like let me.
Speaker 2:One thing that I found interesting through going through B to Z interviewing artists and stuff like that, and there's common things between what I call heavy hitters and people that have perfected their craft within tattooing the gyms, the fucking, the fosters, the fucking, whoever I mentioned, the spikes, the all these motherfuckers, all these motherfuckers out there, you guys all perfected your shit Just so you're not pussy sore Kev's like no, they haven't kev's like no, they haven't I don't know him.
Speaker 4:I was gonna say I don't know him either. No, I don't know. I'm just saying one of the things I find interesting is that all you guys finish your stuff.
Speaker 2:Jim finishes his stuff, he finishes stuff, kevin finishes all his stuff and I say hey, I go to him and I'm like, bro, what the fuck are you thinking when you're doing this shit? Like, like your composition like what do you like?
Speaker 3:Like we're some savants or something. They look at me.
Speaker 2:Just fucking do it man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. I was going to say I'm the worst at advice. I don't know, You're just fucking like this.
Speaker 3:You're the same way as me, then Like this and he's like oh okay.
Speaker 1:He's like's what came out of your gut. He was, he was asking like a real legit and you're like, you're like that looks good, yeah, yeah just do it with it.
Speaker 3:He's actually been, because he'll ask some real deal questions he's actually thinking about and I'm like motherfucker, I've never thought yeah, yeah, 16 years.
Speaker 4:you never asked that question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so another interesting thing, one of my favorite things. I'll go to my favorite things on these motherfuckers, right? So one of my favorite things this motherfucker, this is wild. He's fucking playing Russian roulette every day. You know what?
Speaker 3:I mean, I already know what's coming.
Speaker 2:So he makes his appointments and I'll be like, hey, kevin, what you working on he's like I don't know. I'll be like what.
Speaker 4:Dude. My clients hate it Like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Whatever?
Speaker 2:he wants to do, we'll do it and I'll wait until his client comes in. I'll go back there, take the idea and come back. The line drawing will look chill, clean-ass line drawing, all hand-drawn right, all Like chill, like right, clean-ass line drawing all hand-drawn, right All hand-drawn. No digital shit, no digital shit, y'all no digital shit Does the tattoo Fucking immaculate every time and it's in half the time of anybody that I've ever seen tattoo and the blends are perfect.
Speaker 3:And the skin is fucking perfect, am I?
Speaker 2:No, because I. It's wizard shit, bro. And the skin is fucking perfect, am I? I'm the opposite.
Speaker 3:I have a full render sketch with color black and gray. Whatever it is fully done, I'm talking a whole back piece. I'll have the whole fucking thing rendered out, fully set up, ready to go, and out of habit, I'm like, hey, dog, what you got today, I don't ask no more because I already fucking know he doesn't fucking know, dude, it drives my clients crazy, he could make some absolute dog shit idea, and he'll still make it look awesome.
Speaker 4:It's the worst. Actually, it's not good.
Speaker 1:It's the worst.
Speaker 4:It's actually not good for our mental health it's the worst, no well.
Speaker 1:It's the worst Just because they walk in.
Speaker 4:It did happen on a necessity, so I used to prep back in the day, and then I just got to a point after a while like I'd draw this thing, I'd take a whole day to draw it, and then they'd come in like, oh, that looks cool, but I want this now.
Speaker 4:And I'm like, fuck, I just drew it. Yeah, I just drew it. I took a whole day and it used. So now I'm just like I'll just draw when they come in. But it's not good, because they'll come in and then you know, and every time I say to them they give me the same thing. I'm all what's up? What are we doing? Like motherfucker, I just sent you like four images an hour ago and I'm like, oh yeah, cool. Well, just show me, you know, because I like to see exactly where it's going on the skin, because this and I'm like, how the fuck am I gonna get it between that and I got, and these guys use ipads for that stuff, yeah, so they use ipads for that right, because they'll take the image, they'll take a picture of the arm and they'll scan it I don't know, I'm just not there yet beforehand.
Speaker 2:I just gotta figure out what size. I think it's something different than that. The thinker and me and the question that I would pose, coming to you and be like, hey, man, you know what I mean. Like I think you work better in that scenario, I think I do uh, if you were to plan ahead, I do it, you might overthink it, you might do something different.
Speaker 4:I think you work best yeah, I'm just a fuck, I'm just a procrastinator by nature dude I fucking. You know, I like last minute, I like the stress of the last minute draw you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean yeah it is stressful.
Speaker 4:I'm not gonna say it's not. I try to make it look cool, but it's not Like I stress the shit out and you know, I feel like too. It's like I feel like when it's on the spot and there's a design. I'm like I like the way I drew it that one time, like it's perfect, that one time some of that nowhere near, obviously, to your level, but I used to draw stuff.
Speaker 3:I get a email for someone two months out. I draw it three, four weeks in advance and uh, that was too much, I'd overthink it. I feel like I would. I would it just or not even overthink it. I would do it. I would be happy with the image. And I get around four weeks later to tattoo it. I'll be like I don't even know what the fuck I was gonna do here, like why is it like this? You know you are constantly progressing and changing and doing things different that I got to where I was like fuck, that I'm drawing everything the morning of, because then I'm stoked as fuck to tattoo it. I just drew it, I just rendered it. It's fresh, all the lines feel familiar because I just did that move, that move, that move, that. When I get to tattooing it I'm like man, it feels smoother, it feels better, it feels natural, right, it doesn't feel so planned out Because tattooing really, if I could, I'd never book another fucking appointment again. I hate fucking appointments.
Speaker 4:I'm the same way. I'd love to do walk-ins. Get something cool off the wall.
Speaker 3:It doesn't have to mean shit.
Speaker 4:Yes. Get a skull because you want a fucking skull back to that I don't give a fuck right.
Speaker 3:Come and get a tattoo hang out. We'll probably be best buds that's another thing too, man.
Speaker 4:People should just hang out at the tattoo shop. That's got so busy yeah I just got so business and I.
Speaker 3:They would say I missed that shit get tattooed and I wasn't old enough and they'd be like all right, get the fuck out. Cool now, I'll be back tomorrow I remember that shit too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, nobody hangs out, nobody wants to leave their house. They're like fucking little weirdos on tiktok yeah, I used to go over the fucking empire down there and up and I just stare over the counter yeah, like you're gonna get something. I'm like. Nah, I'm good dog, I'm just I'm just looking, I'm out of here. Yeah, I'm just looking, I'm just like. They're like get the hell out of here.
Speaker 3:I've never been a little kid with my dad going into tattoo shops and like thinking grown men were gonna fucking beat my ass looking at me like, and that's like. I think that's what drew me to tattooing that like tabooness of the grittiness at any point in time if I act out of turn or talk out of turn, these dudes are gonna fucking draw me but that doesn't need to leave tattooing but, on the other hand, what was really cool about seeing these guys?
Speaker 4:I remember being that same thing dude, just intimidating motherfuckers, and they sit down, they paint the coolest, like most beautiful painting. You're like what that came out of that dude? That's insane dude. Those are pure hearts too right, yeah, nice, break down the hours and tell them like these are solid dudes.
Speaker 3:I think that's a big part of tattooing is the core is very heavy right.
Speaker 2:It's a negative to get in. It's fuck you. All right, we love you.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It's of you. Yeah, fuck you. Fuck this guy. Yeah, he's all right, yeah, he's all right. That goes back to childhood sports and shit. Right, we just yeah, but fucking skateboarding, whatever you talk shit to your best friends, I tell, I tell, uh, I got a 12 year old stepdaughter, seven year old stepdaughter live with us full time, great kids and I, I talk about that all the time. It's like man, like I was actually uh talking to him the other day about it. It's like man like my best friends that I grew up with we fist fought oh yeah, we still were homies these girls will bicker about this because she likes so and so, and they like so and so, and it's like
Speaker 4:it's that's not the end of the world.
Speaker 3:You know, like boys, are just different, and that's. That's the cloth we're cut from. We talk shit, our best friends. We talk shit. If you can't fuck with each other, we're not homies. If I don't talk to you, I don't fucking like you. Very simple.
Speaker 4:I think there's a thing in tattooing too. I think a lot of guys, even simultaners I don't know if they'd agree but I almost felt like there was a club to it, in a way like a group, that you wanted something that a lot of people like them weren't a part of, and I always thought that was really cool to be a part of something like that. You know what I mean. Like I wanted to be a part of something different. You know, my family was all conservative construction guys, cops you know a hundred percent, and for me it was just like what the fuck is this? You know what I mean. This is crazy. And I remember one names, but I remember he was having beef with another guy in the shop. He brought a change of clothes because he's like I'm gonna beat the shit out of this guy and I don't want to get my clothes dirty. I remember sitting in there I remember sitting there dude, I sat back.
Speaker 4:I was like I'm gonna hang out, I was gonna leave, but I'm gonna kick it for a little bit it was insane. I was just like jerome dude. I was like this shit is cool and it was just something unique about it that I don't think a lot of people got to touch you. You know what I mean. Especially now, I think, with how popular it is or commercialize it is, they're not going to see that part of it. I don't think anymore. You know that's gone.
Speaker 3:I remember going to conventions and being like man. I fucking know. I know that most of these dudes in this, this establishment right now, we all have some common ground, some commonalities. We probably could hang out, have a dinner, whatever, and get along and be homies. Now I go to a convention. I'm like these motherfuckers are weirdos doing this, doing that, like it's just different. I don't know I maybe I'm jaded to it doing what's weirdo shit define weirdo shit, just shit.
Speaker 3:That isn't about tattooing, fucking, uh, suspension and fucking. I don't even know. I've written off conventions for years. I mean I don't. I was doing 30, 35 shows a year Hand-poked.
Speaker 2:That's whatever. That's kind of how I remember kids getting hand-poked tattoos in junior high and high school, not to put you on the spot, but what's weird in tattooing these days? What's weird? Why is it the way that it is?
Speaker 4:Fuck, I don't know what's weird about tattooing. Right now, I'm trying to besides the obvious of looking at it straightforward I don't know, man.
Speaker 2:I mean, I have one question just stop everything and hold it. Do you think that drawing your drawings and the way that you go about it helps create a level of efficiency and speed?
Speaker 4:for me it does. I mean, I just think that's just how I taught myself to be efficient. You know what I mean. Um, yeah, it helps me better. I don't think I'd be that quick if I used a computer dude, I like tracing paper and I like pencil. Uh, I even like to erase that shit. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I don't know, I think it's easier for me to to do that, and quick, than it is to push buttons. I just, I don't know, I think I've just developed that myself, you know.
Speaker 2:I really enjoy that aspect of you. It remains true to the core values of traditional. That's part of one of the reasons I brought you guys on is you guys have habits that remain true to the core of tattooing.
Speaker 4:I think I'm just stubborn too, man, I just look at it like it's a craft and that's how I keep it. Like a craft in a trade like, hey, dude, and you know I know people that use pens and shit I'm stubborn as hell. Everyone says that dude, even when it comes to like different machines and shit. You know, I know, dude, people could do beautiful tattoos with those pens and shit to me. I look at it, my, that's not, that's not the craft I was in, that's not the trade. You know, I love a nice hand machine, hand peel iron machine. I just think it's cool and I'm not knocking when he uses it.
Speaker 3:But no, there's a time and a place for certain styles.
Speaker 4:Those machines are fucking amazing, yeah but it just looks like a tool to me. Original, like a coil machine, just looks like a tool and that's the craft and you're a fucking dude throwing a hammer, kind of a thing. But you're not. You're doing it on skin.
Speaker 3:Well it's like why you chose to ride Harleys. Right, you don't want to ride a crotch rocket. It's smooth, it's fast. It's like ooh yeah, cool.
Speaker 4:Some loud yeah, you want it to be fast, I want it to be global.
Speaker 2:I want it to kind of scare me. And coil machines are like that because of the way that the skin is the integrity of the skin. You're still able to pull off the techniques of a wand If you're like oh, I want a super soft you fucking do that with a coil arm bar. Yeah, yeah, that's why.
Speaker 4:I hear it.
Speaker 2:Thanks, I don't know, I just that's why I hear it Kevin Childs, y'all Fucking look him up. He's fucking dope.
Speaker 1:And what was Derek's quality that stuck out to you, derek's quality?
Speaker 2:Derek's quality is the way that he's structured within his stylistic things. Everything that Derek gets, he makes it his own style and he doesn't fucking miss. It's fucking hard, bro, that is one of the hardest aspects of tattooing and he's within a color palette that he doesn't stray, from which is super hard too. So selecting the value and the tones of where you put the colors your blacks, your greens, your reds and stuff like that is so fucking hard because there's nothing but options.
Speaker 2:And then this motherfucker his shit is detailed, so the level of opportunity to fuck up is at its height. And then he goes into it with a fucking three when everybody's fucking running a goddamn nine, which yeah, super tight liners yeah what the fuck are you?
Speaker 2:I was like what is that? A fucking three. He's like yeah, I was like, but it still looks fucking traditional. He's like yeah, that's real traditional. Yeah, you know and this is in the beginning, where he's not giving me much he's just like yeah yeah, just put his head back down, yeah that's the world we grew up in, right like you just fucking.
Speaker 3:My mentor is actually funny story actually got uh. I got uh fired as an apprentice at my shop because, for one, I wouldn't talk to clients when they come in I was super quiet, and for two, I wouldn't ask questions, right, I don't know what the fuck to ask. I'm never tattooed, right.
Speaker 3:So I was watch, I'd absorb, I'd absorb and I'd watch, and then, as soon as I got to the part of my apprenticeship where I actually could start practicing tattooing, all of a sudden questions were flowing right, because then I had something to relate it to, because before I'm like, what am I gonna ask I? Don't like I'm gonna ask you how to work on a car. I don't fucking know dick about a car, so where do you start with the questions?
Speaker 3:I got no questions, yeah, so I didn't have no questions and all of a sudden I did, and then it was. I don't know figure it out yeah, I had questions, but I was tattooing.
Speaker 2:So he's like, oh, tough shit. Yeah, he's even told me I'm not gonna teach you anything. He told me that like one of the first really yeah, you tell him I like that.
Speaker 3:He's like, I'm not gonna like that.
Speaker 2:I said that, that's cool, what a dick yeah, yeah, yeah and you know like I'm gonna go up to and ask him like, hey, you fucking teach me. I like I know, but they're like fuck you. Yeah, I know what you're doing and I got it.
Speaker 3:I got it like don't ask me shit, it's totally natural I don't think about it and he's not wrong he hasn't, but once I know I'll tell you, brandon yeah
Speaker 2:if you do this, then this. But he's definitely influenced me in a way where he's influenced my tattooing you. You know he's left an imprint on my tattooing where he'll be like hmm or shit. I can tell whether my work is good or not based off if a motherfucker comes in my booth or not. I can tell if a motherfucker.
Speaker 3:Well, nobody comes to my booth, so what does that say?
Speaker 1:That's not true.
Speaker 4:I know it's not, I come all the way.
Speaker 2:I always bump into you because I that's not true, I know it's not coming along, I'll be swinging around tattoo. Well, part of it is because ah great segue. You know why we don't go in your fucking booth? Because you don't fucking hear us when we're in your booth this motherfucker he's got a bad rap if you guys have ever talked about a rap yeah yeah, if you guys have ever talked to derek at a convention, he probably hearing you.
Speaker 3:He's in his tattoo. I'm about tattooing. Yeah, he is. My thing is with tattooing is I want, even when it's the stupid fucking walk-in.
Speaker 2:I overachieve.
Speaker 3:I want to do the absolute best fucking tattoo.
Speaker 4:I can and respect to that.
Speaker 2:All respect to that and a lot of it is the multiple sounds, the music, the machine.
Speaker 3:I do have trouble, and I really capitalize on reading lips too. So if I'm tattooing and you're talking, I'm like yeah, cuz we get frustrated too.
Speaker 2:I like that shit. I can't yeah.
Speaker 3:So I struggled real bad with the mask shit when everyone was wearing that shit, because I can't fucking. I got to see your mouth, dude, I can't, I can't. And you'll notice, in me tattooing, I'm very strategic in how I tattoo. Right, if we're doing a color tattoo, we're doing the lines and we're doing the black right, and then you're getting a break. You're not getting none before that, after that, because I have to take a break because I've got to pour out the color. That's the only reason.
Speaker 3:And I do that out of sufficiency, because I don't want people to start taking breaks and then shit hurt and then shit hurt. I want to make the job as easy and quick as possible for the client. If they show up and I haven't eaten, fuck I ain't eating then that's just how I am. I have to eat beforehand.
Speaker 2:I owe it to the people, I think, to give them the best version of myself as I can, and you do, and so that's kind of where sometimes people are like especially at a convention and nobody else around you, especially at a convention, I probably definitely have come off as an asshole to people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's so much shit, but you can't hear shit. I can't hear shit. That's why I don't like working in those anyways and honestly, man, there's too many fucking people yeah.
Speaker 4:I lived in giant cities. That's almost why I don't even do them anymore.
Speaker 3:But I get kind of overwhelmed. I'm like man, I just that's the for years. That's the busiest convention there was. I mean I would do 10 to 15 tattoos one day.
Speaker 4:Traditional tattoos. Not little trinkets yeah.
Speaker 3:Real tats, oh yeah, would not leave the fucking booth but to walk to the fucking Thermofax machine or use the pisser right, and so I just would be fucking tatting. The more tats you do, the more money you make, yeah, so why am I going to fucking talk to so-and-so? I'm like motherfucker, I'm trying to make money. We got bills right. I'm here to do good tattoos, make some money. Get the fuck out of here. So that may come off to people who want to have their backs rubbed. I'm not that fucking guy. I've never been that guy.
Speaker 2:Nah, he's not that guy. You know it's a crazy dynamic in the shop. Everything works really really well. Um, there's a right amount of, uh, maturity, respect, uh mutual respect for everybody. Um, nobody's really messy in our shop or like sloppy as far as getting in people's business. Everybody has a respect for the craft and everybody's artistry, so it works out really well. You know we do have tension moments where we just fucking talk shit back and fucking.
Speaker 4:You know like just joshing and shit that's going to happen. Yeah, but shit, I see you guys more than I see my family.
Speaker 2:That's part of the reason I went there, you know, like, like these dudes are not the dudes that you would just fucking go up and talk to, and I like that shit. You know what I mean. That aspect of there looks like he'll fucking shoot you. You know what I mean. Like, I like that. You know what I mean. Like that's my homeboy. Yeah, yeah, that's my homie people be looking at.
Speaker 3:We went in popeyes the other day. They was just staring at his ass. What's so funny is I've been so heavily tattooed for so long you forget I got fucking blinders. Oh yeah, I ignore everyone in the fucking world, right like somebody could be looking, I don't give a fuck right like Like I'll be out somewhere and other people they'll notice it, they'll be like hey, did you see that? I fucking ignore everybody.
Speaker 3:But then it's funny because I'll go out of my way and I'll talk to people and they'll be like oh dude, he's so fucking nice. I thought you were going to be a dick. It's cool, though, because being so heavily tattooed, I can definitely change the perception of that one person that day. Right, like you, hold the door open. Oh, you know, use your normal manners and shit. They're like holy fuck. Most people with face tattoos are assholes, and you're right. Most people with face tattoos are fucking pricks. They're gangbangers, they're whatever. Right, yeah?
Speaker 4:They're stereotypes. Everybody's got their story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I get it, and that's is being heavily tattooed, but being able to break the stereotype. You know, walking into a church for the first time and people looking at me like they think I need saved right.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh no, y'all been saved.
Speaker 3:I started talking to them and they're like, oh, we're on the same team and then, all of a sudden, I'm like their best friend, right, that's tattoo, culture though it is 100% Like we'll be at.
Speaker 2:the one of his boys will pull up all patched up and shit like that.
Speaker 1:I'm like man, I love this shit bro.
Speaker 2:Like all right, you know what I mean. I'm like look at this motherfucker, he look crazy. Yeah, I'm like look.
Speaker 3:I get a pass, though I get a pass, and those normally are the coolest ones.
Speaker 4:Yeah, 100%. They got nothing to really prove. When it comes down to us, you know what I mean. There's nothing to prove, they're just okay, what's up, what's up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, just the regular guys, but you know it's a look behind 100%. It's a look behind.
Speaker 4:Oh, it's that culture that we are drawn to. Man, I love that shit. That's that culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know what? I mean Snakes, heavy tattoos, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and people will hate on it. You know what I mean. They'll hate on it and all that it's like. But it's life, man, it feels good.
Speaker 3:I think it's not. I do what I do. Yeah, you're genuine about it and it's truly who you are.
Speaker 2:That's what's up as soon as tattooing doesn't do it for me anymore, I'll stop.
Speaker 4:But it's been.
Speaker 1:I think that's the amazing thing about tattooing is we do it every day and it never gets fucking old.
Speaker 4:I'm just kidding. I have a love-hate.
Speaker 1:I have no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 4:He thought the whole change. Already I have a love-hate. I love tattooing. I love tattooing. Obviously, I wouldn't be doing it for 17 years, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't love it. But there's times where I do fucking hate it, dude. I'm like dude, I gotta do this day. Fuck this, I don't want to do this. I know it's very hard too when you're going with like everyday life, right, I'm sure every tattoo intermittent and then you know you got some bullshit that's happening in your life and you got to go in there be creative. That's a lot sometimes, dude, you know what I mean. Or even just I go to try to draw some shit and then I can go online and there's 30 million of them that are badass and I'm like, fuck, I gotta draw.
Speaker 3:Well, how do I draw a different? Right, yeah, and it's like oh you know, but yeah, like with what you're saying, like, and he's asked me this countless times about developing a style, right. This is where I have told him something uh with the developing a style. It's uh, the only way you develop a style is to stop looking at styles, right, so you have to get off Instagram. You can't look at anybody else's shit.
Speaker 3:Because no matter what you do looking at anybody else's, you're going to be the watered-down version of whatever you're looking at. So the only way to develop your own shit is to get your chops up in tattooing and then turn everything else off. Do your own shit, Fucking. Do your thing, do your thing and slowly it'll eventually Because.
Speaker 3:I was there, I was like oh, I want to be one of those guys who's got a style and has all these appointments and shit, but the only way you're just going to be beating your head against the wall.
Speaker 2:How hard is it to develop a style?
Speaker 3:You just got to stop thinking about it.
Speaker 2:How hard was it to develop a style?
Speaker 3:I feel like I blinked and it was there.
Speaker 4:It's weird weird, I don't know. I just I still feel like I haven't fully developed my style.
Speaker 2:I feel like I'm constantly changing all the time. Drives me nuts too. That shit drives me constantly changing the stylish as fuck.
Speaker 4:It's hard y'all, because sometimes I, you know, because I've gone through shops of walk-ins where, like I had to do a little bit of everything, you know, I mean, when I worked at six feet under you do, was like that, like you didn't just get to take what you wanted to do, you took whatever, walked in the door, dude. So if you're doing like traditional tattoos, one day they're gonna come in and you didn't book for yourself either, they had somebody booked for you, so you'd walk in and you didn't know what appointments are. Okay, this guy got this is what they want. What the fuck is that's a realistic john wayne. Dude, I do traditional, don't matter, you're gonna learn to fucking do black and gray, john wayne, and that's how it was, and it was just on the spot, on the spot, man, and uh, I think it was good in some ways.
Speaker 4:I think in some ways I was like holy shit, you know, how am I gonna? How am I gonna do what I want to do if I'm doing this? But so I don't know, I don't know if I really. I think people look at my stuff sometimes and they say, like they could tell it's my tattoo. Yeah, whatever, I'm happy with that alone. That makes me happy enough as long as they're happy with it.
Speaker 4:Fuck it, that's cool, you know what I mean. But uh, yeah, you're, I could tell. Yeah, when you see derrick's tattoos like sometimes when they give you references too I trip out like you'll, you'll take something. Well, yeah, I'm like you know it's like a severed head thing you were showing me and then it looks like derrick's. I'm like how the fuck did you get that out of that?
Speaker 3:yeah, well, and it's funny because I explain the style outside of just the physical style, within tattooing. I say your style is how you talk, it's how you walk, it's how you dress. If you're being authentically who you are, your tattoos will resonate and and show that right. So you're not going to see some some tough ass fucking dude riding harley's fucking grew up fighting doing some whimsical bullshit. He's going to, he's going to do fucking tough guy tats Solid as fuck.
Speaker 4:Maybe a little harsh blends.
Speaker 3:That's just, if you're being authentically, you, your tattoo will then have a style based off of that Without even trying. Right, you know what I mean. So it just naturally happens.
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like I'm getting there One of the last paintings that I did with the snakes and shit. That was for him for his baby and all of that. That was for my boy. I like the way that one looked. I like certain things within that that I actually wanted to pull from. I mean, I had a lot of crap. You guys saw me frustrated, you know, but I feel like that last one was good. Let's take a little break all right close it out, yeah all right and hello again.
Speaker 1:This is zach batista with the b2z podcast, and thank you for joining us for part one, episode two, season two, our interview with derrick billingsley and kevin childs. Be sure, sure to check out part two. That's out now, thank you.
