B to Z
Mental health and wellness
B to Z
Tattooing and Triumphs: Mike McAskill's Story of Perseverance
Ever wondered what it takes to transition from skateboarding to becoming a versatile tattoo artist? In this episode, we sit down with Mike McAskill, who takes us on a journey from his early years in Corona, California, to his rise in the tattoo industry. Mike shares his relentless pursuit of artistic perfection, his experiences with various styles like realism, traditional, and neo-traditional tattoos, and the invaluable lessons learned from both supportive and challenging apprenticeships. His story is one of resilience, continuous improvement, and a deep passion for art.
Facing a severe back injury can be a life-altering challenge, especially for someone in a physically demanding job like tattooing. Mike opens up about his struggle with a herniated disc that left him grappling with intense pain and the difficulties of getting an accurate diagnosis. He recounts the emotional and financial turbulence during this period, shedding light on the importance of financial planning and the role of platforms like GoFundMe. From adjusting his hobbies to finding new ways to balance work and personal life, Mike's tale is a testament to the power of perseverance and proactive financial management.
We wrap up by exploring the intricacies of client relationships in the tattooing world and the profound impact of fatherhood on Mike's life and work. From defining the qualities of an ideal tattoo client to discussing the significance of strong outlines and contrast in tattoos, Mike offers practical insights for both aspiring and seasoned tattoo artists. Additionally, he reflects on the joy of teaching self-defense through jiu-jitsu and the importance of personal freedom and expression in both art and life. Join us for an episode filled with heartfelt discussions, professional wisdom, and the transformative power of fatherhood.
Hello, hello, hello. This is Zach Batista from B2Z Podcast with my co-host, Brennan May. What's up everybody, and today we have another amazing guest, Mike McAskill.
Speaker 2:Hello, all right, Mike McAskill. Alright, M mike McAskill. This is, uh, I call him Coach Mike, coach, Mike, M mike McAskill. The reason I wanted to bring Mike on Is his habits. He's one of the tattooers out there that stay super consistent and is, uh, an artist that is able to do A wide variety of art styles. There's a lot of tattoo artists that specialize. An artist that is able to do a wide variety of art styles there's a lot of tattoo artists that specialize. Mike has this niche of making everything his own and making his own style, but still able to adapt to realism, traditional, neo-traditional, all of those elements like soft, chicano, black and gray. Um, his work is like a printer. This dude is insane. This dude's insane. Um, I'm constantly chasing to be better than this dude. He's one, he's on the hit list. You feel me? He made the hit list. So just people that I'm like, yeah, I gotta fuck his shit up. So, yeah, mike is a good one. Um, hey, where you at, where you from, mike?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, mike is a good one. Um, hey, where you at, where you from, mike?
Speaker 2:um corona. I grew up in corona.
Speaker 3:Okay, california, corona, california. For the most part, I moved around a lot, okay, growing up, but I ended up there in like seventh grade in with xeritel.
Speaker 2:I graduated high school yeah what was your upbringing like was it? What was your shit?
Speaker 3:It was cool, I had a good time. I I mean, I skateboarded my whole life. I know you guys had Zach on here. I met Zach through skateboarding when we were like 14 or 15 or something, somehow. We ended up working together years and years later, but I skateboarded every day. Yeah, that's what I love doing, and I miss it, I'm just old and concrete hurts now and I'm not built like a fucking bird bones over there, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, I remember you a few years later or a few years back, getting a board, yeah, and fucking around and like all right, right.
Speaker 3:I think I'm gonna. I got hurt immediately too. I was like I'm done with this shit. Yeah, so it didn't last long.
Speaker 2:That it's hard to, that's all right. Maybe you can answer this question for me.
Speaker 1:I skated a lot too younger. I felt like once you started lifting weights you said you were a football player felt like you start packing on the muscle weight well, I did that when I was young too.
Speaker 3:I just I did lift a lot of weights when I was young, but I was a lot lighter. So as I've aged, I just totally gotten so much more dense, yeah how would you, how would you describe your art style?
Speaker 3:oh uh, any, anything anybody wants, I'll do it. I don't have like a. I wasn't like a artist, you know, I always considered myself. I'm a commissioned artist. So whatever you want, I'll make it. I'll make it tattooable and I'll make it so the tattoo lasts forever. Make it tattooable and I'll make it so the tattoo lasts forever, because I think over time, when I was learning, I was taught how to do a tattoo the right way, and so I build everything to make sure it looks like a tattoo and that tattoo is going to last you for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2:I've watched you learn different techniques or attack different techniques. One was faces, uh. Another one was, uh, waves and flames um, you attack those with a really heavy tone. You know you just really go in when you decide all right, maybe I suck at this and I need to be better at this. Well, yeah, yeah, as far as progression, is that how you see you progress best? Why is it that you attack things with such vigor when you're, I think.
Speaker 3:I think it's nothing ever has been super easy for me to learn, so I'll just overdo it. Like I'll overwork it and I'll make sure like I'll get it right until it's done, like for like, when I was first learning, like I couldn't draw well, I can always draw, but I couldn't draw well. And then I would take it to the guy who taught me Brant Van and he'd be like that fucking sucks, do it again, do it again. And then over time I would just I would draw like thousands and thousands and thousands of things and eventually, you're going to end up with something good.
Speaker 3:I think you know, and you know, you just have to keep putting in the work.
Speaker 2:Was apprenticing easy under him, or was it hard? It was super easy.
Speaker 3:Well, for me it was easy. Why, how he was harsh, but he was cool with me. Like you know, back in the day everybody was a little bit rougher, but I was okay with that. I had been at a previous shop, I got an apprenticeship at 18, and they treated me like shit, like straight shit. And they treated me like shit, like straight shit, yeah, and I was like I could take a lot.
Speaker 4:But at a certain point I was like, man, fuck these, there's a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was like I didn't know who I still don't know who any of those guys are, you know, because I wasn't there very long. I was there like two weeks, three weeks maybe, and I would. I would come in and and, uh, they weren't even cool, like they'd be like, hey, fuck you. Oh, bitch, blah, blah, blah, like just talk to me, like I'm a total piece of shit which is, like you know, after a couple of weeks of being in a shop every day, like you expect that to kind of chill out. Yeah, but it didn't chill out. And, um, the final straw was, uh, I, I, because I was super young and I had a bad attitude, but uh, I was doing everything. I was told they had me, uh, stay. After one night, after I cleaned up and like, hey, you want to smoke weed?
Speaker 3:I was like, yeah, so I sort of thought I was in, you know yeah and uh, I go in the back room and they like pass around the the ball or whatever, and I hit it and then they're like, okay, pack a ball. And I was like, oh, I don't have weed, you know. And then like five of these dudes just like started surrounding me and they're like I'm gonna fuck you up. You better give me my fucking weed right now. Blah, blah, like you're gonna fucking die.
Speaker 2:And I was sitting there like I'm gonna get jumped right now, you know like I was like dude, I didn't know.
Speaker 4:You guys asked me if I wanted to smoke.
Speaker 3:You know I'm not getting paid here, I don't have any money and I'm doing all your bitch work, like which is cool. I think you should have to do all that work, um. But it was super weird and I walked out of there because they were like oh, you better bring me a fucking two g's tomorrow, you know two grams. And uh, I never went back.
Speaker 1:I was like man look, looking back on that, I mean you probably don't even care, but was you think that was part of the hazing? You think they would have played it off, or they were the type of guys I think?
Speaker 3:because, because, if I really think about it now, I think a couple of those guys were like pretty gnarly tweakers.
Speaker 4:Oh they're already kind of twisted up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and um, uh, yeah, I don't think it was part of the hazing and all. I think it would have gotten worse. Yeah, and cause nobody was cool, like nobody. Like when I got an apprenticeship with brant later on, it was like a year or two later like it was amazing, but it wasn't the same like it was. It was like hey, do the cinnamon challenge, like can you eat this spoonful of cinnamon? And you can't. Nobody can't like fun stuff. Yeah, he's like all right off the floors but it was like joking around. It was way lighter and he, he was super cool and the guys that worked there were so cool with me, like eric eweasy from tattoo revolution. Um, that guy is like my big brother dude, like I still I'll go see him every once in a while. I'm like guys so cool and he taught me a shit a little while I was there too. Okay, um, but they just treated me like who owns Tattoo Revolution.
Speaker 2:Bram Van. Okay, yeah, was who owns Twilight. Do you know Twilight, twilight Fantasy? I don't know. Are they connected in any way?
Speaker 3:I have no idea. I don't think they are, but Maybe just the name. I don't know. I'm associating.
Speaker 2:They've been around for a while though. Yeah, I thought trike Are they still around. I believe so. Oh, okay, I believe so yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know if I ever met anybody there when I came to.
Speaker 2:Elizabeth street. Mike got put with the task of coaching me. Uh, remember I had to re-apprentice, go back and check those episodes. I had to re-apprentice when I came over to Elizabeth.
Speaker 3:Street. I don't know if it was a full apprentice. It was not a full apprenticeship.
Speaker 2:I wasn't able to tattoo, I just had to be open to restructure A restructuring, I guess.
Speaker 3:Or a development. I think you just had to think a little bit differently. Yeah, you know it's hard to say, because when you're in it, you don't necessarily know.
Speaker 2:You know. That's why I'm asking these questions, because I can get a perspective. When you got given the task to to coach me how did that shit even come about? Did Brian come to you and be like, oh, I got this guy coming through like I don't know?
Speaker 3:I think when somebody comes in here like I think at least me and Jim, we're all kind of like well, we're here to help anybody if they're need help with anything. So I don't think it was a full-on. I can't remember, it was a long time ago now, but um, maybe it was just.
Speaker 2:He was using you as a reference and I took it heavier because I was new in my career and everything was heavy at that time maybe.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like oh, that's the guy to teach you. All right, that's coach. You know, maybe that's me making it heavier, Maybe because I don't think you needed a little work.
Speaker 3:You didn't need that much, but I think that might have been a you thing, dude. Yeah, like maybe you're just like, all right, I'm going to get coached, or whatever. But I don't think I ever had the conversation with Brian, because we're all under an understanding, like when somebody comes in here, we want to make them better too. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So what were you guys' first impressions since we're on it? Like when you met him, you start, you know, you felt like you could call him coach. Like what was your first impression of him? Like, oh, this is just another guy I can coach.
Speaker 3:Did you show up when I was gone? When I showed up On the show you had?
Speaker 2:no, I showed up before the show when your back was fucked up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my back was real bad, yeah, so I wasn't here that much, nah you?
Speaker 2:weren't here, and Mike was an angry motherfucker at that time. He was a cripple.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's like he had came off of like a year long fucking bout with his back.
Speaker 1:Well, I couldn't walk for a year. What would you? What'd you do if you don't want to be asking uh?
Speaker 3:I. I ended up we went to a. It's a big, long, okay story, but we went to a convention in reno and, um, I was lifting a lot of weights at the time. We drove nine hours no sleep, got up in the morning like 6 am. I hit the gym before the convention so I was like 27. Couldn't do stuff on no sleep at the time. And I remember at the gym I was doing a back workout and I felt like a twinge in, like under my shoulder blade. Yeah, like bad when I was, like I started in like under my shoulder blade.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like bad when I was, like I started sweating and shit, it was an upper back. Yeah, it was my upper back, so I kind of ignored it and I finished the workout like an idiot. And then I was like, oh man, I think I need to stretch out. But I'm in a cold sweat the whole time for hours and I hit the pool and I go my first like stroke in the pool. I felt it felt like somebody hit me in the head with a baseball bat, oh shit, and I was all dizzy and I was like seeing stars. That true pain it was. Yeah, it was crazy, but I was still dumb enough to like.
Speaker 4:I let's finish this workout.
Speaker 3:Let's swim some more. I just like barely. I was like I got a little tear. That's crazy about dudes that do that. It gets worse because I went to the convention. I tattooed three days and then every night we were partying, partying, were partying, partying, partying, partying. Like I fucking was drinking I don't know like 20 beers a night, you know, and like, yeah, we ended up on like saturday night we're in the bar, we're gambling in the alleyway, and then we end up, uh, we're all like having arm wrestling competitions. Brian's fucking smashing everybody. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then, like I go up to arm wrestle these dudes and people were just folding my arm over Like it was nothing and I was like these guys can't fucking beat me, what the fuck is going on? Yeah, it was weird.
Speaker 4:And it was tripping me out. I was like this is like, this is like that guy can't fucking beat me. I had no power anymore. I had nothing.
Speaker 3:So in my arm was like that's a horrible way to figure that out. So, but I think I did like four or five more tattoos.
Speaker 3:But like by the last one, dude, I was straight up pouring sweat and uh, me and Zach were sitting in the tattoo shop. Uh, at like three o'clock in the mornings, we all just tattooed each other and I started like spinning. Like I was standing there and I was spinning, zach looks at me, he goes dude, you're fucking wobbling. What's going on? I was like I don't know, dude, like can you take me back to the hotel?
Speaker 3:So me and him walk down the street, get a cab, I get to the hotel. I'm like I cannot sleep at night. I was having like insane feelings in my face, in my hands, in my neck and for some reason I was like. I think I broke my neck Like I don't know how, but I think I broke my neck and the next day I asked him to drive me home because I had to go to the hospital.
Speaker 4:So he had the car drive nine hours back home.
Speaker 3:I should have just went to the fucking hospital. You know I wasn't tough.
Speaker 4:I wasn't thinking.
Speaker 3:I thought I just need a rest for a day or two Uh. I just started seeing blinding lights Like it was bad.
Speaker 1:I I just started seeing blinding lights Like it was bad I had a bad nerve.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, nerve impingement.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So basically that I call off work for a couple of weeks, and then I ended up, dude, my head was stuck like down, like I couldn't pick it up anymore. I couldn't pick anything up with my hands and I was started like really freaking out and I kept going to the hospital.
Speaker 4:I kept going to the hospital.
Speaker 3:I was like hey, I think my neck's fucked up so they gave me like CT scans on my brain. They gave him on my neck, but the injury was in my mid back.
Speaker 4:It wasn't my neck so.
Speaker 3:I couldn't find anything. So I basically, a year goes by, I found specialists, I found everything. I've spent my entire life savings and uh, finally I, I, uh, I went to a like a holistic doctor and by that time it had been about eight months and this whole time I hadn't, I didn't work, so that's why all my money was like gone. When I found the holistic doctor, I had a mound of scar tissue in my mid back, oh yeah, like. So basically he was like dude, you have to get rid of this scar tissue. And basically what happened around that time? I paid, I was seeing this guy and then I paid out of pocket for a MRI.
Speaker 1:Okay, it cost $10, thousand dollars trucker change yeah, because my insurance wouldn't cover it.
Speaker 3:Because, because nothing, they couldn't see anything on x-rays. Because they were looking in my neck and um, it was a whole fucking huge mess. But the uh mri showed that I had a herniation in my t-spine, yeah, so in the mid spine, and they were like, how did you do this? Like you're supposed to be in an accident for something like this. I was like dude, I fucking partied.
Speaker 3:But I would have never found that unless I found that holistic doctor and, um, they ended up breaking it up, straf, scraping it or something. Yeah, well, it was a lot. So I got. At first I got a bunch of grassed in which was like the scraping in my whole back which is black and blue, and I did it three days a week. Oh, you're like for like six months and then they couldn't, they couldn't break up anything anymore. So that top layer kind of like smoothed out, yeah, but they couldn't get deeper and my back wouldn't?
Speaker 3:they'll say no, yeah it hurts, it's not as bad as a tattoo.
Speaker 1:But three days a week is a lot okay, for those people that don't know, when I was and I can relate to that when I had my injury real bad and they had a breakup, all the uh, I was only going once, I was going weekly, yeah, uh, and, and I was in pain, yeah. So for you to tell me you were going three days a week, and for people that don't know, that's it's a lot, it's it's you're, you're abusing your body to get rid of the injury.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's a small fortune too, yeah, yeah but, then. So once they couldn't get any deeper, because you know how, when you scrape it like, the blood flow comes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and you're trying to heal it and try to heal it.
Speaker 3:There wasn't. It wasn't showing blood anymore, so I had broken it up, broken it up, broken it up, and then I started um, it was called myofascial release, where I found another. I found a lady who was so fucking good at it, Like they basically just melt Like they put. She put her elbow on the scar tissue and his melts there for like 30 minutes and then they start to breathe. Yeah, and then they start stretching it and um dude, it hurts so bad. You start like seeing colors. Dude, it works though.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it feels amazing afterwards.
Speaker 3:And then that stopped working. And then I I uh, for about four years I would get a deep tissue massage three days a week and I don't have that mound anymore and I have full rotation, everything like I'm still a little stiff, but it's not.
Speaker 2:How long would you say rehab took? For five years, five years, five years man, I know exactly, but it's not.
Speaker 3:How long would you say rehab took for that? Five years, five years, five years. Man, I know exactly how much costs. Um, well, it cost me. At the time, you know, I was, I was younger and I didn't come from anything Like. I started tattooing young and built all everything by myself. But I know I had 50 grand in cash and over the course of that year I got down to $150 and then I had to come back to work in the back brace and that's when I met him in the back brace, oh yeah so this is what you guys?
Speaker 1:so your guys first impression you're beat up angry. I was real angry. It wasn't a good time, for me, for sure, so this is what you're getting.
Speaker 3:So you're getting the first impressions. Yeah, you're beat up. Angry, I was real angry it wasn't a good time for me, for sure, okay, and he's private too, so if he doesn't even know you, he's not really going to like open up to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was a little bit of both, so I was like, damn you know, so when he changed back. I still look at Mike and be like he's not as fucking bad as fucking. I make him to believe. You know what I mean. Yeah, but I think that's evolution too. As we get older, you know what I mean. We just become chiller man and worry about less Not that you were ever worried about much.
Speaker 3:I think that's the opposite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't worry about anything anymore. You don't worry about anything.
Speaker 3:And I opposite is like yeah, I don't worry about anything, I don't worry about anything and like I'll bring an issue to this guy and he'll be like ah, brandon, what the fuck you worried about that for you know. But that that perspective came from, uh, basically not being able to walk. I I got a glimpse of what it's like. It was a small glimpse. I could still move around, but I literally couldn't do anything. I got a small glimpse of like being crippled and it changed my whole perspective on life.
Speaker 2:That's trippy to hear that. Cause you know, being in a tattoo shop with somebody, you really don't fucking talk about this type of shit, like so. This is all new to me. Like to hear his perspective changed by what it is he's going through. You see somebody going through shit, but there's no way you can fucking tap in or what the fuck it is truly going through.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. So that's crazy, man, that it defines your life like that. It did. You know, I think. Uh, life in life you get a couple of big fucking wake-up calls and I think I'm pretty sure that was my biggest one. But it fits like. You know, I might have had a crazy attitude when I was younger. Um, I've always been like kind of chill, but I don't, I don't let anything really get to me anymore because I can still move, I can still walk. Like you don't know what it's like not being able to move for a year and my heart goes out to anybody that's stuck like that, like legitimately crippled. I don't even know if you're allowed to say that word, but if you're legitimately, uh, what do they?
Speaker 1:call it.
Speaker 4:I have disabled.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, my heart goes out to anybody like that or with the back injury, because I have so much empathy because I could have been there If I didn't get the right treatments and if I didn't figure it out and luckily my injury wasn't bad enough to really like screw my whole life up. That's a hard life. And like when I look at that and I look at my life. Now I'm like this shit's easy man, I gotta move around like and the back injury.
Speaker 2:Back injury is just half of it. You know, being a tattooer, when you deal with a health issue, it's intensified by 10 just because we don't have that normal insurance. You know, connected to our job, like there's protection.
Speaker 3:So a lot of the things we do it's out of pocket.
Speaker 2:So, and when you are hurt to that point, when you you can't work, so there is no income coming in and it's always going out, and you know that's a tough place to be in. Um, it gives you a lot of reasons to want to quit. You know what I mean Tattooing, because that's what every tattooer fears is they break their hand or they do they get hurt in a way where they can't do this anymore because once you become a tattooer, if you're doing it right, that's all you fucking do.
Speaker 2:You know, if you want to be fucking solid at it like you don't operate in a lot of different areas as soon as you do you kind of, your tattooing takes a hit, wouldn't you say, mike? Oh, yeah, yeah. With that said, how do you maintain so many hobbies?
Speaker 3:well now. Now I'm like full-on into anything I do. Just well, I was always like that. But now I. I don't take it for granted like, yeah, if I do stuff now, it it's like you serve. I overdo it.
Speaker 2:Uh, jujitsu, you still will skateboard if you're out there.
Speaker 3:I would. Yeah, I still have a board. Yeah, I still roll around bike.
Speaker 2:Uh, dirt bikes, uh, he had. He just got a chopper that he saw. Golf, um and Like year round. So snowboard. I snowboard a lot in the winter Snowboard.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you guys hit it a lot this time, huh. It was empty, huh.
Speaker 2:No, it was packed. It was packed, packed this year. Which one's your favorite out of all the hobbies?
Speaker 3:Oh, I don't know, man, I think I have adult ADHD and I just got to do it all. Yeah, yeah, I have way too Too many things to do.
Speaker 2:Is that coming from you being semi-paralyzed as well too? No, I always did stuff like that, so you were like that before.
Speaker 3:I was like that before. Like growing up I played sports a lot and then when I found skateboarding, I like fully focused on that, but at the same time I would snowboard constantly, I'd go surfing, I would still golf. Oh, I got a question uh, what hobbies benefit tattooing? None of them. They're all other than golf. All of my injury, or all of my hobbies can injure the shit. Yeah, and like yeah, I can. You could totally destroy another year of my life, you know, but I don't care, I have to go and like honestly as long as I don't hurt my back or my neck, I'm good like in jujitsu.
Speaker 3:The last two years I've torn my knee three times. I tore my hip, like yeah, I tore my iliopsoas. That that one was terrible. Did you have surgery on that?
Speaker 1:Uh-uh, no, uh-uh you just rehabbed it.
Speaker 4:What got?
Speaker 1:you into jujitsu.
Speaker 4:Huh.
Speaker 3:What got you?
Speaker 1:into that.
Speaker 3:Well, for a long time. When I met Brian, he's like hey, come to my house and train. So I met him when I was 22, I think, and I would train with him a lot. And then, um, right before my injury, one of my buddies was like hey, we should join this jujitsu gym. I was like fuck yeah. So literally he signed up the weekend.
Speaker 3:I went to that uh convention and got hurt, so I was literally going to do it, then but then I couldn't, so I had to sit back and watch him for like five years, like have all this fun.
Speaker 4:And he would tell me he's like dude, it's so fun.
Speaker 3:So I was like, well, if I ever get better, I'm going to get into that, so you got teased to you, but you still want to do it. I gotcha, I gotcha and then the first day I walked in I had so much fun like getting my ass kicked I was like, oh yeah, I gotta, I gotta keep going to this and I still do that three days a week. You know, not a high level guy by any means, but it's super fun three days a week, yeah I love it.
Speaker 3:Meet some super cool people there, um yeah, it's really fun yeah, I know I'm kind of bouncing all over.
Speaker 2:Um, what advice would you give to people who are facing injuries within tattooing? Um, I know people do go fund me and that wasn't around when I did it.
Speaker 3:Um my big thing is I always saved for a hard time. I think it's nice that go fund me is around, but I also think it's your responsibility to take care of your life and I think, just do whatever you're going to do to get your money, you know. But in my case I spent my savings first and then I had to move to my credit cards, and you know. I dug myself out of that debt when I was getting back to normal and then got back to saving after that.
Speaker 1:Do you follow any financial plans, any financial rules? I guess sort of okay, yeah it changed.
Speaker 3:That also changed my whole perspective on because I was always a saver big saver. Um, it wasn't a lot of money but, like I said, I started from nothing. Like you know, I was really young and my family moved across the country and I just started tattooing and, you know, just built my life, Um you knew you had to save you have to but, for when I got out of that I I was like, well, how, how, how's this going to end?
Speaker 3:How's tattooing an end for me? Because if it just ends your savings done like quick, like that 50 grand I had, I thought that was a lot of money. It's not. There's nothing. That's a year, yeah, it's a year, especially with the medical issue. Yeah, it's a year max, and even then it really was a little rough.
Speaker 4:Like if I, if I max and even then it really was a little rough like, uh, if I, if I didn't have a medical.
Speaker 1:Well, nowadays it's even different, because the question is so high.
Speaker 3:So there's no way, 50 grand would be gone in six months. Easy, yep, um. So now everything I I uh make, I save or I invest, um, I don't spend a lot of money like other than on things I need. Like obviously I'll go out to dinner sometimes, or like I budget for everything. I max out my IRA and then I add to my 401k regularly and then I have a another cash investment account for the time that I am ready to retire. If I want to retire early, I'll have that cash account and hopefully I'll have enough money to live off that until I'm able to pull out of my IRA and my 401k.
Speaker 1:So it's like a young tattooer coming in, like if you could speak to that.
Speaker 3:Set an IRA immediately and max it out. You're making more than enough money to do it. Right now. The max, I think, is $7,000 a year, but it grows Like I didn't start that thing until I was 30 years old. You know what I mean. That's too late.
Speaker 2:It's not too late, but it's late. That's the only problem with it. It's that you did it too late. It's late, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like if I late, yeah, yeah, like if I would have started when I was 18.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would have been totally fine by 27, when I got hurt um message yeah, let's tap into this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a nugget people for yeah, anyone anyone in that situation younger on yeah, if you're younger, you need to look into it.
Speaker 3:You need to do your own studying, don't just take random advice.
Speaker 2:Like entrepreneurs, uh, people self-employed contractors.
Speaker 3:Anybody self-employed can take this information, yeah and there will be people out there like that's ridiculous, like they're, you're wasting your money. Well, in the last seven years that I've had mine, I've seen mine grow, so you know, well, you gotta put in the right stuff and I can't give any advice on what to tell people, on what to put their money into.
Speaker 2:There's many ways to gain wealth, you know.
Speaker 3:There is, and there's all the information's out there you have to read. You have to read the history of what the stock market does, you I mean. And there's other people who think I'm fucking stupid and they're like, oh, put your money back in your business, Like that's cool too. You know, I'm not. I'm, I'm not against that at all. But for me and my plan for my future, I invest and I invest a lot.
Speaker 2:I believe in a lot of the things that you've come up with over the years. You know, just because we were going through tough times as well. You know we went through covid. You know I saw you go to your back, I saw you build, come straight from your back and go straight to Ink Master and then you had a huge influx in business.
Speaker 3:And you know I would assume right, not really. It didn't change that much. It was like a good year, one really good year, because I I wasn't, I was kind of invisible, which is fine, um, but I, I got a good year out of it, and then it kind of went back to normal, kind of invisible on the show, I think so you were.
Speaker 1:You were season 15, no, no, season eight. Season eight no, no Season eight Season eight yeah, and how, how, how, how far?
Speaker 3:how far did you get Um? I think I went out at 10. There was 10 people left, Okay.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's pretty decent, it's okay, yeah, yeah. Did you learn anything? What did you take anything from that show? Did you um something you want to do again?
Speaker 3:I don't know I had a great time. I would do it again if they call. I don't think they will, but I had a he always says that we always.
Speaker 2:This is one of our. I'm going to correct him one more time. I guarantee you he will be on that shit again, just because he's a good people to have on.
Speaker 1:TV and they bring a lot of people.
Speaker 3:There's a whole lot of lame ass things on that shit. Well, I don't know, because I have a baby coming, so I can't just up and leave for a couple months, I mean, that's even more sellable. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Now we're appealing to the ladies yeah, you know, yeah, I gave Mike the father on there, could you? Strap the baby to your chest oh baby you know, because I was still in that back brace. You were hurt, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And you got to do a lot of standing around and that was murdering me. But, like of anybody that knows me, it's not going to confuse me with a bitch, so I'm not going to complain about it, you know.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, no, but I was, it was hurting yeah.
Speaker 4:It was hurting a lot.
Speaker 3:And he had a tattoo for six hours at a time and I had only been back to work a month and I was only tattooing an hour or two at a time.
Speaker 1:How far advanced did they hit you up?
Speaker 3:for that. They, they. It's like a year process Back then. I don't know how it works now.
Speaker 2:This was eight years ago or something. Was it beneficial if? You could go back and do it over again, and you had the like, would you still choose to go?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, I, I would have gone about it, uh, with a better attitude. You know, um it, it was just a weird time for me, you know. Everything was happening. It's like my life's completely stopped with the injury and then it just like fast forwarded, like a thousand miles an hour. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So it was it was very weird, like it was weird timing, but it was just at a shitty time yeah, yeah but it cool, I had a lot of fun, I met some cool people.
Speaker 3:I think, if anybody gets the opportunity, I know a lot of tattooers out there say, oh, I got hit up, I got hit up, they hit up everybody. You know it's a long. It's at least back then. It was a long process to get through it. And then you have to do all these Zoom meetings with like producers and stuff like that and they ask you a ton of questions and I would totally do it again. But it all depends. Like I said, I don't think I'll get the opportunity again because lightning strikes once.
Speaker 1:I feel pretty lucky We've had two artists that have been on Game Master now You're the second one, so They'll redo the shit out of anything.
Speaker 2:In Hollywood, man, it's kind of like hiring somebody who already knows the game. If they've got to bring in new people, then they're re-seasoning. That's why they do those revisions. Those guys already know they're already under contracts, like all right, bring them back. Yeah, they're a pleasure to deal with.
Speaker 3:Blah, blah, blah I thought it was. Well, I wasn't very cooperative either.
Speaker 1:No, yeah like so maybe that's why yeah, left a little sour taste.
Speaker 3:So they're like maybe I don't know I don't know what their perspective is, like um, but from my end, you know they they'd ask you before you go on. They're like, hey, would you talk shit? And I'm like, yeah, I'll fucking talk shit.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I will.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But then when I?
Speaker 3:got there.
Speaker 2:you know I wouldn't, you know, yeah, I'd be like yeah, they fucked that up From the shop side of things. It was cool to watch. It was super cool to watch. You feel me? Just to be like, all right, let's see what Kev's doing, let's see what the fuck is going on, and like to watch to see the swing and the fan ship come over, like that shit was crazy too. Like, oh shit. Like this motherfucker's on TV. That was crazy too. Like, oh shit. Like this motherfucker's on tv. That was a little weird for me. People notice him and like I didn't think you were invisible because they tried to make a mockery out of you a little bit in there, I thought.
Speaker 2:So you know, like, I think they tried to play on you a little bit just because, like obviously that series. The theme in my and I don't know this right, but the theme of it was boys versus girls. You feel me?
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 2:Mike's not one to fucking. Just if you tell him what the fuck he is, you got a problem, you feel me. If you tell him what side to reside on, like, oh, you're on the boy's side.
Speaker 3:Man he's going to fucking. I've always gone the opposite of what anybody's told me to do and that's probably a probably hindered me a lot in a lot of ways over my life, I think that was a good stance, though just because it was like you were probably the only one that was neutral, and I felt like it came off like I'm not into that shit.
Speaker 3:Well, for me and I still feel this way art and tattooing has nothing to do with if you're a dude or a chick it has nothing if you're a good artist, you're a good artist in my eyes.
Speaker 2:I don't care if you're a girl or a guy what do you think about the tattooers, though, that fucking sell tattoos with sex and fucking?
Speaker 3:that's their hustle and they're gonna do what they're gonna do what they're gonna do in any way no, it doesn't, because anybody going to them is not going to come to me. You know what I mean it's never going to happen. Describe the perfect client that comes through your door I mean, a lot of my clients are awesome, so they'll come in like especially if there's like hey, dude, I want to. I want an eagle or a panther, like, do whatever you want.
Speaker 3:I'm like perfect yeah easy, just fill this spot, you know. Perfect. Or if they're like, I want a whole sleeve of it as long as they come with a couple ideas I'm good like I could roll with that where are you going um tattoo wise, artistically?
Speaker 2:right now are you on back piece.
Speaker 4:I know you were doing back pieces for a little bit.
Speaker 2:I did a lot of them, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I still will just take whatever comes in you don't have a direction right now, or are you just enjoying tattooing?
Speaker 2:You still enjoying it, yeah.
Speaker 3:I just love tattooing If I don't tattoo for like three days. I have dreams of like. I have vivid dreams of like my hand holding the machine and seeing the needle in the skin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's weird. Your attention to detail and, uh, with your, your technical skills I, I think, are probably the strongest that I've seen in tattooing. What do you think that contributes of? How do you stay consistent with your tools, cause you know the tools fall off a little bit. You know what I mean. Your life pushes you artistically in different ways. How do you not fucking allow things to affect your work?
Speaker 3:I just know what's going to look good in 10 years, 20 years, so, and that, like when we talked about art earlier, like I learned, the way I learned was through making tattoos, so that's never changed for me. Like I know what a strong outline is gonna be good forever, like even if I am doing like a fine line thing, you know you gotta have, you gotta have a lot of black and you gotta have like good contrast for it to hold up.
Speaker 3:Like there's just rules that I don't break, like and I'm not. I'm not an artist that's gonna. Like I'm not changing the game, like I've been doing this for 20 years and I've seen people come in like I'm gonna do it different, like, and you look at their shit in 10 years and it looks horrible yeah, no, he uh healing is everything.
Speaker 2:Healing is everything. That's what we tattoo for we do not tattoo for a fucking beautiful picture at the end of it. Sometimes we get one. Sometimes we fucking don't. You know my pictures are horrible. Most tattooers don't even like a fresh tattoo. Uh, we like the heel tattoo and how it's powdered out and got a little bit of sun on it and it's set into the skin and it matches all the other stuff me personally.
Speaker 3:That's what I like. I'm like that too, and there. That's why I don't. I've never filtered a tattoo for a picture or anything that shit's getting out of control. It's getting out of control but if what I show on my online instagram stuff is what it will look like when somebody comes in and they say hey man, I want this.
Speaker 2:I want realism, color realism, um, and they don't want any outlines.
Speaker 3:Nobody asked me for that, so do you do it? Uh, color realism? Probably not. Cause that. I think that's my weakest part of my game, you know.
Speaker 2:So you will say no to something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'll just say hey, man, like I'll show them like this person want to color realism, but then I'll show them something that I had done and if they like that they'll go with it, and if they don't, they'll go to somebody else. How long you been tattooing?
Speaker 2:Almost 20 years? Yeah, all right. So I know, in the beginning of tattooing we tend to give more research, we tend to go a little bit harder and give our clientele more. I don't feel like you wavered on that any.
Speaker 3:No, why? Because they're trusting me to mark them forever Like forever. This isn't like you're not buying a pair them forever Like forever. This isn't like a like you're not buying a pair of jeans off of me. You know what I mean. You're literally buying something forever. So I'll, I'll do what I can to make sure that they're happy. And there are some people that overstep you know, like, and I'll if it's too much. I was like, hey, you know, maybe I'm not the guy for you, and like I hope I'll give their deposit back. And like I hope I hope you find somebody that can help you out. I think in the last what year did I tattoo Star tattoo.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's almost 20 years, but in the last almost almost 20 years I think, I've had like 3 clients I've had an issue with, and that's it.
Speaker 2:This question is more for me and just for the love of tattooing or whatever, or intel. Do you turn away old people? No, at a certain age. I had this lady the other day and she's like, oh, I'm on blood thinners and it blew out and all that type of stuff you just have to let them know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I let them know beforehand. I'm like and I don't try to offend them or anything, but I'm like, hey, your skin's pretty old, like it's like paper, it's not like there's no elasticity in it, like I used to tattoo a guy named Chris I haven't seen him in a long time so I don't know if he's alive anymore, but I tattooed him every year on his birthday and we started in at 76 years old.
Speaker 4:That's a cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah and um, I love the guy. You know all we talked about was golf and and investing. Yeah, and I tattooed him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he he's like.
Speaker 3:I know, I know my skin's all these. I always wanted tattoos and I just my wife didn't like them, but she's not going to leave me now. You know, and we'd hit him with it and you know his skin would just fillet filet. So he knew, he knew, you know those guys and gals that old like they, could hit a corner of a desk and they're fucking bleeding for three weeks.
Speaker 2:You know so you've gone through 20 years of tattooing. Yeah, uh, tattooing is different now, more than it's ever been, um, just because it's growing and there's so many varieties and genres, and, uh, what do you think about modern day tattooing as far as, uh, the attitude towards it?
Speaker 3:um, I think the attitudes are a little crazy. Um, on the tattooer side not for not everybody, because I've met a bunch of really cool people, um, but I mean, for me it's always kind of been like that. Like every couple of years somebody will come in with a big attitude and they get a huge name and you know, and then they sort of fall off, you know, because they treat people like dog shit. It's like a popularity contest almost.
Speaker 2:You find people and they make they fall under the excuses that other people have created you know it's so hard? It's not so hard.
Speaker 3:I can't handle it.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. And then so I went and I just did it on my own. What do you think about those? Those types of tattooers that didn't apprentice and or tried to apprentice, failed in their apprenticeships and was like man, I still have this love for tattooing and I'm going to do it on my own. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3:I think they're going to run into some problems down the line that they're not even ready for. You know, if you tattoo for a year, you think your shit don't stink Like you're going to run into something. Somebody's going to come back with something real fucked up and you're not going to know what to do, instead of having people around you that can help you out, that have been around for a while. Like you know those people, I don't even worry about them. I don't even think about them. Yeah, I don't even care about them.
Speaker 2:That's one thing he taught me Stop worrying about everybody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stop fucking worried about it, or you're focused on shit that you should be like lower level shit. So when my eye was down here, I should have been focusing on individuals up here and set my bar a little bit higher artistically. So that's more refined within the tattoo palette, because there's a style that we're searching for with in our progression as tattooers. Right, that we're trying to get a tattooer style tattoo, you know, tattoos that look like tattoos. That is. The ultimate goal is be able to just shit that out of your hand.
Speaker 3:Every different style fucking dragon, fucking boy, fucking, you know, right, yeah yeah, I, I think, uh, the one of the best things I ever did was just worry about me and my clients, that's it. I don't, I don't care if somebody's doing better than me. There's a lot of people doing better than me, but it doesn't affect me, it doesn't bother me at all. Like good for them. You know when, when my clients leave, 99.9% of them are super happy and they'll usually come back for another one and, um, you know, and I fully appreciate them to the fullest. Like, um, I'm super grateful for anybody that allows me to mark them forever. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Is that the one thing that sticks out for me is that I'm marking them forever. It's not, I don't care what it is, I don't care. I don't have to express myself artistically Like I'm going to give them what they want because it's for them, it's not for me. This isn't. I make a living as a commissioned tattoo maker, so I love doing it. A commissioned tattoo maker, so I love doing it. It's super fun. And I've had other jobs a long time ago and I fucking hated all of them. So this, I've never hated this.
Speaker 2:Over the years I've always asked you have you ever had an apprentice? Are you going to bring an apprentice? On? You're like fuck that yeah, fuck that, absolutely not. No, no. On. You're like fuck that yeah, fuck that, absolutely not. No, yeah, no, no, no. Do you have an apprentice? Yeah, yeah, hey, listen to that. Everybody I got clay fucking.
Speaker 3:Hey, and that was your first prince, very first one yeah, probably the last, and not not anything against him, it's just it's a lot of work on both ends and um also done traditionally how it's done.
Speaker 4:You don't bring a it's done.
Speaker 2:You're not supposed to just have them running in Like you're giving them out, you know Um but he I, he just has an insane.
Speaker 3:he's got a crazy work ethic like super good. He never thinks he's doing good enough, which I think is a good thing for tattooing Maybe not for all these mental health people out there, but for me. I don't think I've ever done good enough, but it's always helped me create good stuff and, uh, that guy will hyper focus on something until well he shouldn't on some things, but it's making him better and it's making him better fast.
Speaker 2:Picking an apprentice or allowing someone to apprentice is also saying, ah, this person won't piss me off that fucking much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, he's my friend, yeah. I mean he's been my friend a long time and I know how he is. I love being around him. That's why it's so hard yeah.
Speaker 2:It's like because one, it's hard to teach, right? None of us are fucking teachers. We didn't go to universities, so I'm a terrible teacher, right. And he says that, he says that and sometimes you are you know, sometimes he fucking is him and Jim, oh well he's talking about the worst. How so though.
Speaker 4:He's like joking around, just joking wise.
Speaker 1:Yeah you gotta catch him at the right time, almost individually, he's so calm. Right now it's hard to think he deviates from that that far it's like this If it's before a tattoo.
Speaker 2:It's not gonna happen. You're gonna get a short ass answer. You either gotta catch him in some fucking free time, but okay. So if you go and you ask Mike and Jim a question about a tattoo, jim's going to tell you you know, just do what feels good. And then Mike's going to laugh like that and be like yeah, fucking, you know, just put some lines on. You know, brandon, fucking, you know, do the things.
Speaker 1:And that's what they'll tell you.
Speaker 2:I think you're this shit down right now.
Speaker 1:I'll say when just messing with you, right?
Speaker 2:yeah, just messing with me he knows how it is this shit?
Speaker 2:it fucking sucks, it sucks you're trying to do something that you don't possess yet, and it requires a shit ton of failure. It requires a shit ton of failure and then he's somebody that can do it. That's what's cool about art is you're it's somebody who's doing things that you strive to do like, and that's where you get art appreciation, where people go, oh, over another artist. Right, it's like, oh, that motherfucker does some crazy shit. Because we all try and stylize and we have options of how we stylize our own pieces, but how they do it naturally in their original style is what respect comes from for tattooers, right?
Speaker 2:I think so yeah, yeah. Would you say that's part?
Speaker 1:of the learning experience. So when he'd come to you and you joked with him and you got him a little frustrated, was that part of like the master plan? Well, no, or you're just fucking with him.
Speaker 3:Let's just fuck with him.
Speaker 2:You. Brandon's really fun to fuck with too, cause I'm like, like he said, he doesn't get emotional with his art, he does like I'm the opposite. So if I'm into some shit like, I'll come up there and I'm gonna rant about this fucking Say it's the eagle or whatever, or I know that all he's gotta do Is just I can put my traces paper Right here and he can just jot me a quick eagle down.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah and we don't even got to fucking talk about it. We don't even got to talk about it, but that's the last thing that's going to happen. Yeah, you know he's going to want me to draw three or four more times. That's what you pretty much always say.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, what you pretty much always say yeah, fucking, draw it over again, draw it 10 times, draw it over 20 times, if you have to, and then draw it again you know, and then jim be like, just do what feels good and the mixture of two like when you're at work, like frustrated you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And then elizabeth street at the time I came here I wasn't necessarily supposed to be here, bro. It was like very established shop just off of my apprenticeship and I had a lot to learn, so like I was trying to get up to speed. But then when you deal with people that are still fucking. 90 percent of the time are fucking with the names to be way worse, like you, brian, you guys used to be way worse.
Speaker 1:Everybody's kind of calmed down.
Speaker 3:It's calmed down a little bit, but even a long time ago it was worse than that. Yeah, you know so.
Speaker 4:To us that's light yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just them having fun. Yeah, and that's what would frustrate, because I would go back downstairs and I'd be like I got nothing from that right there, Like I guess I got to draw it again. But also.
Speaker 3:That's what you would do. You draw it another 10 times and then you come back with a better example of it, and maybe that's part of what we're saying Like, well, we'll just.
Speaker 2:Xander's in that stage now, wouldn't?
Speaker 3:you say yeah, yeah, he's picking it up and I'll see him. The repetition yeah, do it again, do it again, do it again, like that's all you really need to do. Like, do it again, but do something different. Do it again, but do something different. Like, like I said, I'm I'm not a great teacher. Uh, brian's probably one of the better teachers because he, he breaks things down into you rave about that everything you must have learned a lot from Brian.
Speaker 3:I learned a ton from him when I showed up, yeah, and at first it was a little rough, but I was used to that from being around brent and eric and all them and um. But I had left and gone to another shop in georgia and I got a year of just tattooing nothing but walk-ins like shit, loads of walk-ins. I probably did like 10 tattoos a day and I thought I was hot shit.
Speaker 3:you know, after getting shit on the but the apprenticeship I left I got into full on busy ass shop and then I like in that at that time I was like one of the better tattooers in that area no offense to anybody that was there, but I cause I had a real apprenticeship from in. I don't you've known who Brent is for a while. Like back then everybody knew who he was, so it carried weight, you know like everybody knew who he was and he's still one of the one of the best technical tattooers.
Speaker 2:He lays in a good fucking tattoo. He tattoos my homie Janelle Paul Stone. Everything I see is always fucking bright. It's always fucking sharp and clean, solid too. And he keeps tradition too. He's not trying to be this look at me, look at me, motherfucker.
Speaker 4:You know a lot of tattooers like within their legend.
Speaker 2:They try and create more of a legend, you know, rather than just fucking being an artist and a tattooer Like yeah, chill the fuck out, I got one of his machines. You rebuilt it for me, still running good, nice yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he I got my basics there and went to Georgia tattooed. And then I came out here and I had walked into Incaholics and Brian was like all right, come in and do a tattoo on Tuesday, Because back then you had a tattoo at the shop in front of everybody.
Speaker 4:To get a job Like the one I did in Georgia was like that, and the one.
Speaker 3:I did out here was like that, and now it kind of just goes out portfolios.
Speaker 2:I got to do that at Breakthrough.
Speaker 3:Do you? Yeah, you. Now it kind of just goes off portfolios, but I got to do that breakthrough yeah, you'll be fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I'm just kind of worried. Like my question about it was like do I push the limitations?
Speaker 3:and show them just do a solid tattoo.
Speaker 2:I posted that chief. That's today. That's probably one of the ones that I'll do for the tattoo. He see, he just wants to see how I am with clientele and see my work.
Speaker 3:Back then. I'm sure you're going to feel it. It's a little nerve-wracking, oh, 100%.
Speaker 2:You always want to present yourself at your best. Tattooing is hard, regardless.
Speaker 4:Tattooing is hard, bad days sneak up on you. It's not like you see them.
Speaker 2:I doubt that I'm going to do anything that's going to keep me from getting within that shop, or you know, working there. But yeah, I think that that's cool that they actually asked me to do that. You know, I was telling my lady. She's like, oh, and. I was like nah, like that's how this quality control, like I'm, all they want to see if you're clean, for one thing they want to see if I suck.
Speaker 3:They want to see if you suck. They want to see like if you're you know you're touching your inks with dirty gloves, you know, like if you're wearing a uh, lap apron. You know what I mean like just those little things because habits are hard to break.
Speaker 3:So if you're tattooing something and then reach for your phone. That's a fucking huge red flag like terrible, or yeah, you gotta like it's just a lot you have to see and, like I said, we don't do that much anymore. I haven't heard of it. That's the first shop I've heard of that in a while. But I think it's a good thing and I think you'll be fine.
Speaker 2:But I think it's one of those things that's changed because tattooers have changed. You know like. There's so many different fuck-ups that you can hire now. You know like, or liars. You know fake portfolios, uh, wand wand wizards. You know who? Oh yeah, just, they think they're the shit because this one provides them, uh, a easier learning curve. You know what I mean? It's easier.
Speaker 3:I don't think they make anybody better, but it's an easier learning curve for sure.
Speaker 2:I disagree, though, because when they first came out, there was this huge jump within the shit you don't think it makes them better.
Speaker 3:Huh, I don't, because you know, I think the filters online make people seem better than don't. Because, uh, you know, I think the uh filters online make people seem better than they are, have you?
Speaker 1:changed at all your equipment.
Speaker 3:I mean, I have one of those and I use it quite a bit, but like I'll still only outline with coils, I think it's just easier and faster for me. Um, and yeah, like I can get a back piece outline in two and a half three hours with a coil, where if I was to use the rotary it would take me all fucking day. You know and I there are people who can use them fast like that.
Speaker 3:It's just I haven't been able to do it and I don't really want to, and I really like the sound of my coils and I have my perfect machines. They're set perfect, like I know how they're going to work, I know how they're going to heal, like why change? A good thing for me yeah, and you've tried everything. That's pretty much been out there, huh yeah, yeah, the tools change as the years go by and it's just tools and I'm okay with trying them out.
Speaker 2:How do you feel about hand poke?
Speaker 3:tattoos. That's just another one I don't care about, Like that's those people aren't coming to me ever.
Speaker 2:He's staying in his lane. Yeah, staying in his lane.
Speaker 3:Like somebody who wants a hand poke tattoo is not going to hit me up, like, hey, can you hand poke this bullshit on me? It's not going to happen, so why do I care?
Speaker 2:What about a bodysuit? Have you completed a bodysuit yet?
Speaker 3:I don't think full complete. There's been people like I think I have two or three people like I have a lot on, but it's not full. Not full, they're still close right what about Anthony Anthony's pretty close.
Speaker 2:He has some big pieces.
Speaker 3:Well, he's got a whole thigh left. Yeah, he has a whole thigh left, I believe, and he has some spots on his torso, but he got his front done by somebody else but his back though that was kind of that kind of put you, that was a popular tattoo when you had it finished.
Speaker 2:Yeah, through the tattoo community, yeah, and that one came out.
Speaker 3:I don't, I don't know when I finished.
Speaker 4:It must be like 12 years ago, 13 years ago, maybe 15 maybe 15.
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Technical wise tattooing. How do you feel about blackout?
Speaker 3:tattoos, and then the white on the black. I've seen it look good on some people and I've seen it look terrible on others.
Speaker 2:Is that something they can get to you from you?
Speaker 3:I mean you can't just tell them what the outcome could be? Yeah, but nobody asked me for that.
Speaker 2:I think, that shit is stupid. Yeah, it can be I think that shit is stupid as fuck yeah. The blackout tattoos, like it's just a whole bunch of people that obviously even never been fucking ashy or something. Yeah, yeah, but that shit is going to fade and you're permanently going to be ashy, like there's no lotion that is going to fix it. I don't give a fuck if you got that shit or not Like it's stupid as fuck.
Speaker 3:Coming from a dude of melanin. Yeah, Like darker, darker people. The fuck are you thinking? You know like it's not good for darker skin.
Speaker 2:It's not good, or for pale people either, if you're in the sun Like you're just going to burn the fuck up.
Speaker 4:I'm interested If you guys got stories about that blackout shit.
Speaker 2:please send them this way. I think that is upon the newer trends of tattooings. I thought of doing sepia tones in my skin for background. I thought that might be cool. We don't know, You've never done it. Have you ever seen it done?
Speaker 3:I just don't think it's going to look good. Have you done it yet?
Speaker 2:No, I was going to have. Well, let me know who I was going to have. We don't know how that goes. You know who? Michael.
Speaker 3:Oh well, michael's a little different. Yeah, I'm sure he'll figure out a way to make it work Right, but I don't know if it'll be just straight sepia you think it would look like shit. No, I mean, anything Mike does is not going to look like shit. I don't think he would do something that he thought would look like shit. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:What about experimenting? Where are you experimenting in tattoo? If you say I want to try something fucking new, where do you?
Speaker 3:I don't experiment. No, I don't need to. I think that's for people who think they're artists and want to expand.
Speaker 2:Whatever I make tattoos yeah, that's it so there is a difference between a tattooer and a tattoo artist.
Speaker 3:I think so. Well, no, I think Right, I don't know.
Speaker 2:You know how that goes right. I don't know because I used to have the same. You were just in an art show yesterday. They just had the Elizabeth Street art show with Speed Kings and it was dope.
Speaker 4:I saw your fucking pieces.
Speaker 3:That shit was fucking art, thank you, Well, I only paint like once a year. It's not a passion of mine at all. I don't care about painting, I can do it. Do you like it? I like it once a year, I don't want to do it every day. I don't think that's a way for me to make any type of money. I don't think that's a way for me to make any type of money. I can enjoy it, but I can enjoy it if I don't have anything else going on. But we already went down the list of hobbies I got and it takes away from that, and I'd rather do something else, do you?
Speaker 1:study any other types of art on the outside of tattooing, just tattoos.
Speaker 3:Just tattoos, just tattoos, and you paint a couple times a year once a year.
Speaker 4:That's bullshit. Man, I paint tattoos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I have books, I have a whole library of reference material that I can pick and choose from which aren't tattoo related, but I can make them into tattoos. Yes, there you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this motherfucker, he got a crazy library. He buys books and machines. Religiously correct. Yeah, I have a lot of them.
Speaker 1:I have a shitload of books Since we did get you right after that event.
Speaker 3:What did you think about it? How did it affect you?
Speaker 1:Was it a lot of good? You think PR that came in.
Speaker 3:I think there was a ton of people. Yeah, I mean, it was yesterday, so I saw a bunch of my clients show up, I saw a bunch of everybody else's clients and I saw some people I hadn't seen in a while and I thought it was cool. I think we're probably going to do more of them, obviously, brian.
Speaker 2:Do you like being in the spotlight.
Speaker 1:Mike or not no, because that might mean you have to paint more than twice a year unless you're well. I sold one of them, so I'd have to do at least one, master blue, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a nice one, thank you yeah, one of my clients, uh well, I'll post the picture, because now it's. Now it's gone it's gone.
Speaker 3:It'll be up for another day and it'll be gone. He's coming to pick it up Wednesday.
Speaker 2:I like that. Actually, people are buying. A lot of times people are buying.
Speaker 3:I was super, I didn't even put it up for sale. And he asked if he could buy it and I said hell yeah, dude, that's awesome fucking. A, you know him yeah, I've tattooed him for a couple years. We've done maybe six tattoos on him.
Speaker 2:Cool dude this is a good question. Okay, we're gonna. How do you feel about client tattoo artist relationships? That's a very taboo area, wouldn't you say uh, do you allow your friends to be, do you allow your clients to become your friends?
Speaker 3:I think a lot of them do, but I'm friendly with everyone. And then the only time sometimes. I'll feel bad and be like hey, you want to do this, but I don't even hang out with my real friends, so I'm not going to go hang out with anybody else, unless you're involved in one of my hobbies. I'm not doing anything. And that's real shit, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it has nothing to do with anybody, it's just that's a lot of serial hobbies yeah, I don't have the time Like, okay, I'm going to go on a mountain bike ride today, like if somebody hit me up was like, hey, you want to go mountain bike riding, I've done that.
Speaker 4:That's why you don't see me catching children with this dude much.
Speaker 1:So you don't have any clients like that right now that are jumping on your hobbies. Yeah, I do, I do Okay, because that's where we got our. I feel like it went a little bit deeper in a friendship just messing around doing this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, in a friendship, just messing around doing this, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I've definitely had clients, but like I have a dual sport, like I ride with brian quite a bit, but I had other clients like hey, we're gonna ride dual sports today.
Speaker 3:They got one, you know, and I'm like heck yeah let's go yeah or like I tattoo a bunch of guys from the jujitsu gym, like I hang out with them there, but like I'm not I'm not somebody who will go out too much, like I don't have beers. You know what I mean. I don't drink often, or if at all, right I I don't want to um waste my time, like it's not wasting time because some people love doing it, but like hang, just hanging out, just sitting and hanging out and like drinking.
Speaker 1:It is a waste of time for you Boring to me.
Speaker 3:I need to do something, like I have to keep moving.
Speaker 2:You've, you've worked with Jim for how many years? Well, when?
Speaker 3:I. When I started, he was at the rogue elephant and I was at Inca holics.
Speaker 2:You guys are like a duo at this point. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I love working with him. I'd be super bummed if we weren't working together. I just don't see that happening anymore.
Speaker 2:Like you know, I know he would fight to continue to work with you and you would fight to continue to work with him. Yeah, that's something that's like developed over the years.
Speaker 3:huh yeah, Because Something that's like developed over the years. Huh, yeah Cause. So yeah, when I got hired at Incaholics he was at the Rogue Elephant and I guess back to that whole getting there, yeah Was remember. I said I had to do a tattoo.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:We didn't finish that story actually. Okay, go ahead, brian, thank you for that. Looked at my tattoo. He goes you're hired, but you fucking suck. Oh, he's like you got to change everything. You got to throw those machines away. There were stages. They got a worse stage than I got and I was like no way, yeah, but all I heard was you're hired. Like I didn't really care about that other part, he brushed it off.
Speaker 3:I was was like I got a fucking job, yeah, yeah not beating around the bush, huh but yeah, and then I would draw things there and he'd just be like change that, what are?
Speaker 4:you doing.
Speaker 3:It's the same thing you know that we would do to you, but it would come from brian, you know, yep, so I think that's how we kind of learned that. But yeah, jim was at the Rogue Elephant, so at that time that was like the A team you know what I mean and I was over with, like at Inkaholics, the B team that's how it goes if you own two shops that's just how it goes, the same with Empire.
Speaker 2:Sean's A shop was Riverside, his B shop's probably Redlands, and then the C Rancho, you know. Just because of location, yeah.
Speaker 3:But it was me and Bobby and this guy, javon, and Danny was there and it was so much fucking fun, but we didn't do anything like nothing.
Speaker 3:we'd be gambling quarters all day, waiting for the one walk-in every six weeks or something you know because that was 2008, during the economic meltdown, and, uh, it was just so much fun though, like I had, me and bobby had so much fun, it was just fucking off all day but when we were bored, I would go get uh, tattoo magazines from the leaker store and I would draw every tattoo out of there. Just sit there and draw and draw, and draw and draw and then, like we gamble, and then draw and gamble.
Speaker 3:But you make good use of your time in between yeah yeah, I made a ton of use out of it um, that's the harder part about tattooing.
Speaker 2:There's there's a lot of decisions to be made in that long idle day. Yeah, yeah, uh, and very rarely do a lot of tattooers choose to work. That's where you see the, the defining within tattooing. That's what you're looking at. Some people see, oh, they're fucking amazing. Like now, that's a motherfucker who just locked himself away for a long time. Yeah, did a whole bunch of shit and now it's dope. You know like it's there is no gimmick about tattooing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it tells on you. Tattooing tells on you exactly as soon as you just like skateboarding yeah, you get somebody's skateboard, you say hey, stand on this shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good luck you know what I mean, you're gonna immediately tell like okay, if he's been lying or whatever, yeah and but yeah, so jim was at the road and then we would hang out every once in a while but we weren't tight. And then he ended up tattooing my chest like a year in or whatever, and then we still weren't that tight. Like he was cool. I was cool.
Speaker 3:We were cool with each other, obviously that guy anybody can get along with that guy or he can get along with anybody. But um, when we came over here, brian took, he kept, he shut down alcoholics, he Rogue Elephant and he took me and Jim and Dave Richardson Richardson Because Dave got hired at Ancoholics with us a little bit after.
Speaker 2:I did Brian man, he's got a. How the fuck did he do that?
Speaker 3:I don't know, it was just.
Speaker 1:Pulled a three-way switch.
Speaker 2:It was so hard to get three dope-ass artists like vibe and that fucking deal with each other well and to co-exist. It's very fucking hard and like. They're all very individualistic as well. Their styles are like and they're very like. You'll never see this motherfucker copy anybody else's shit as far as style and shit like that. Richardson absolutely not. Jim, absolutely not. They're original within their subject matter. I'm telling you, brian man, he got a like, a fucking taste in certain things.
Speaker 3:You can see it, yeah, um well, when we came here, me and jim got super tight yeah, jim and dave, obviously, because it was me, dave, jim and Brian and that was it, and we had Sadi as the apprentice and that was super fun and we came out like killing it and I think that was 2015. Here you still talk to Sadi. I haven't talked to her in a long time.
Speaker 2:What's up, sadi? You feel me. I hope she's okay. I miss her, you know she's dope too.
Speaker 3:She was awesome.
Speaker 2:I hit her up, man, but she's hard to lock down.
Speaker 3:I don't know what happened. I think she was just kind of Wanting to do her own thing.
Speaker 2:Which is cool. She's just different as far as this type of shit. I think she would totally kill an interview like this and stuff like that, and I think that's where she shits on herself a little bit. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Well, she had, you know she when she was she basically learned English really good, like over the course of the time she was here and like you get her chatting, she's really funny, funny chick dude that's crazy too.
Speaker 2:It sucks that, it's hard because she says she's so cool man like you know. Yeah, but you definitely see, everybody's got their own things going on, yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And yeah, as long as she's happy I'm happy for her.
Speaker 2:And same same same. You know, that's one thing. That's weird about tattooers uh, a lot of people hate. I remember going in sacramento and we were walking around, we were doing the rounds and stuff like that, and you were, you know, mike was doing his thing, talking and getting cards.
Speaker 3:They were hating on me there yeah remember, cause I had just been off the show.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was immediate, yeah and um, there was this one dude. He came up and I looked at his work and I'm like Mike, like his work is shit, and Mike was lacking.
Speaker 2:He's like yeah, man like you know, sometimes other artists need support too. You know what I mean and that shit, like it really hit home for me. I was like damn, because going coming up as an artist you know, being a black tattoo artist and like Empire is like super white boy shop, you know what I mean or had the tone at the time of that. You know what I mean. Maybe that's why they brought me on, but having that overtone, it's just been, it's just been different, you know? Yeah, yeah, I lost my train of thought.
Speaker 1:That's all right.
Speaker 2:Could you tell?
Speaker 1:Would you say you had a revelation come out of that injury, like you wanted to live life a little different, or that shows in your hobbies, like you just wanted to take advantage of life?
Speaker 3:No, I had the same attitude before. I just appreciate it more now. Okay, you just had a same attitude before.
Speaker 2:I just appreciate it more now. Okay, yeah, you said a taste of it.
Speaker 3:I had a taste of not being able to do it and I was miserable, and now I just don't let shit get to me and I just do what I want to do always yeah.
Speaker 1:Is there any type of I don't know like bucket list thing that you want to get out? Like jiu-jitsu, do you want to hit a certain level? Or in your art Do you want to hit a certain level, or are you just kind of enjoying the ride?
Speaker 3:No, I'm just trying to live to every day, to do whatever I want to do. I don't. I don't have a major goals. I don't have you know other than financial goals, but keep it all in solid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't really care about any of that. I just like doing what I like to do, and I think if more people live like that, they'd be a lot happier. Cause you keep people set things that are unattainable, and you know, I I think I'm very, uh, anti, whatever anybody's telling you to do.
Speaker 3:Like you said earlier, if you look online every day, they're like you need to have fucking 90 side hustles, you need to work till you fucking die. If you're not a millionaire, you're a fucking loser. Like I don't buy into any of that dude, like I'd like to. I save for the bad times and I enjoy the good times and I think I'm having a daughter and that's all I'm gonna teach her. Like enjoy every day. Don't let weird shit get to you, don't let all the voices from anywhere else get to you. Just do your own thing. And I think people actually get to him way too much because nothing can get to me anymore, because I was crippled, yeah.
Speaker 4:Nothing yeah.
Speaker 3:You know it doesn't bother. Nothing bothers me. I can walk. I can walk away from this conversation and not even think twice about it. No offense, you know like but if it turned. If the conversation turned, I'm like, all right, get the fuck out.
Speaker 1:I'm glad it didn't turn south, I hit mike up yesterday and I was like hey man, like how you feeling about the interview?
Speaker 2:I was like I'm kind of worried like I told.
Speaker 4:I was like I was kind of worried.
Speaker 2:I told zach, that too he's like oh, you already fucked him up and got him all nervous. I was like nah man like I just like I know, if I come with the wrong questions, like we could not, we could not go anywhere. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Just because I know he's not here for the bullshit you know there's a game planning me on the back side of it crazy thing about mike is he's wild, but he has this crazy gentlemanly fucking standard about him.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, like well, thank you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I'll treat anybody with respect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they don't respect me Exactly, and then you're disappeared to me?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it never existed, yeah.
Speaker 2:Covered in tattoos. You know you look at us like you can ask one of them surfing motherfuckers that'll fuck you up. You feel me. He look like one of them boys with the shirt off, but like you're not going to leave no trash on the beach. You know he's going to check you.
Speaker 3:He might piss you off. I clean up the trash when I go.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. You know, we're talking to all these individuals, even Brian you, these harsh individuals, these snipers, these tattooers, and you know, and all these people have evolved mike's got.
Speaker 2:He's got a past too. He wasn't always fucking mr nice guy and all that shit. And it's just, it's cool to see the development of you finding peace, not worried about other shit that is man-created know, all these problems that are man created and it doesn't necessarily register to a human. And then having a baby, that's a big one, like, and, uh, even bringing it up. I wasn't even going to bring it up, but since you brought that shit up, how do you feel? I feel good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm excited, yeah, I think, um, I'm just excited we're having a girl and I'm just excited to teach her all the cool shit and just to let her know the same thing I said. You don't have to listen to anybody.
Speaker 4:My mom, told me that too.
Speaker 3:When I was young, she goes. Anybody tells you what to do. You don't have to listen to shit. You have to listen to me. But I'm not even going to tell you that much. I never had rules, rules. The only rule was don't get arrested and don't get anybody pregnant. Growing up, you know, those are easy rules to follow, um, but everything else, you just let me be me. You know, and so I meet people these days. Know, I'm almost 40 and I'm seeing 40 something year olds go through these midlife crises and I talk to people all day and I see them. I'm like man, why are you tripping so hard? But they were. I don't think they were ever allowed to like be themselves. You know that's a huge part of it.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. Yeah, you know that's a huge part of you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'm going to make sure, like my daughter is, going to be allowed to be herself in any way independent.
Speaker 4:whatever she wants to do, we're going to go full crazy into it.
Speaker 3:Like dude, she wants to do gymnastics. I'm setting up balance beams, I'm getting mats, I'm I'm pulling out all the stops. You know, like that's the type of stuff that I'm excited to do, cause I I kind like just freedom of expression and support Sounds like yeah.
Speaker 3:And like that's. I think that's why I like tattooing so much Cause I have freedom of expression, Like I'm not in a cubicle, I don't have some fucking boss being like you got to do this by this time, Like everything is on me always and I run a tight ship for my own business. But I have the freedom of thought and freedom of expression and I think that's super important, so I don't think I'll hit that midlife crisis ever.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean yeah, you gotta exert it, so you don't. Yeah, yeah, you pin it up. You end up with a yellow miata. You know what I mean? Convertible like fuck. Yeah, you see what I got with those guys.
Speaker 4:You know that's the first time it that's like with those guys.
Speaker 3:You know that's the first time. It's like they wake up one day and they're like, oh shit, half my life is over and I haven't done anything Like. That's sad, I don't. That's never going to be me. I've done everything I've ever wanted to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, plus, you know, I've gotten to experience some shit nobody gets to experience and I would say it's a good time to have a baby, you know, because it it it reaffirms what it is that you've learned as a human being, like your core values as a kid. You know the things that you were brought up upon, because now you have to teach somebody else and it forces you to look at life in a different manner, and the only way that you can look at it in that way is if you cross over into being a father.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. Oh yeah, it's gonna be a big change for me, for sure.
Speaker 3:Like it's cool I've watched you raise three kids like yeah, that's why I've seen you change a lot too, I've seen you change for the better. I appreciate that over time, like appreciate that used to be, like you know, real short-tempered, real high headed, and then, like I see you chill out and like I feel like be happier. Yeah, yeah, I can sense it, I can feel it. It's a good thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it took years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it took years to get to this point and I knew I had a problem because I was pissing everybody off and I was burning bridges and I was yeah, and I just wouldn't leave shit alone because, you know, and like part of that was it was I was stressed because I wasn't prepared for what I had when I had it. You know, that's the big thing about having a baby is, if you're not prepared, like that shit could wreck you. Yeah, you know, and that could be uh with your spouse, with your finances, you know, with your job, if you're struggling within jobs or you're in between or whatever, like that creates stresses because the baby, when it comes it, you become a caretaker to two lifestyles. It's not just the baby, it's the, it's the lady as well, because yeah her.
Speaker 2:Her happiness is judged by you. As a man, if I see your lady pissed off and unhappy, I'm looking at you like mike, you're not taking care of her because, like you know, like same with your lady, exactly if like you're your lady's pissed off and she's just angry like that's your saturation.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:That's what you're fucking putting out there and you know, I met the miss this other day and, like you guys, look like you're having a baby. You know what? I mean, it looks, standard it looks standard issue and I'm happy for that for you. Girls are dope. Yeah, girls are dope. I feel like they get. They come with empathy and boys you have to teach empathy. You know little girls to save the bug, the little boy's going to step on it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:But I'm excited because I have been the only one for so long that's had kids within my group of tattooers. You know both, bobby and Brian. Brian doesn't count, though because he's fucking the owner. You feel me?
Speaker 4:He's the owner. You feel me, he's the owner. Xander's got a kid, xander's got a kid but Xander's new.
Speaker 3:You feel me? I only worked with Xander for a little bit, that's true. He's got two kids who Dave Hamburg?
Speaker 2:Dave Hamburg. Yeah, but he had left the two He'd been on shows.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:He did leave, for had left the pinhole show so and I didn't connect with hamburg, like I did just get real attracted and shit like that but like just personality differences and shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we probably have his ass on too, yeah, but um, it's going to be interesting to see what kind of father you have, specifically in the areas where you need to be tough yeah, I think it's going to be hard for me for a girl, but this world is full of psychopaths and so I'm only going to have one requirement she has to be in the gym at least two or three days a week Nice, once she hits like four or five, she has to be in the jujitsu gym and that's the only requirement.
Speaker 3:If anything else she wants to do, we're going to do it, like I said, full crazy into it. If anything else she wants to do, we're gonna do it, like I said, full crazy into it. She's gonna have to do that until she's 18, and that's the only thing I'll probably be really tough on, just for her own safety and building her confidence. You know what I mean? It's a big confidence booster when you got a girl and and, uh, she can choke you out and you won't even know what happened and not even look like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like jujitsu is uh a good sport for any, any type of body, any, any, yeah you know, there's drinks for everybody.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the big guys, little guys, you know everybody, long legs, short limbs, whatever, but you lock somebody.
Speaker 1:But you lock somebody up. You lock somebody up, there's no, there's no. You know, you put a good choke hold, you put a good arm bar in. Now you can really mess somebody up that way we got some girls at the gym that are black belts.
Speaker 3:They're straight killers. Oh yeah, They'll wreck you and it's just so cool, Like it's so cool and I was like, if I ever have a daughter, this is 100% going down.
Speaker 2:That's dope man. Yeah, Do you think you'll have more kids? Do you think this will be?
Speaker 3:I think this is it Just one, but who knows right? No, michelle's having a really hard time with it, yeah. You know, she's sick all the time. Everybody's telling her after the first trimester, you won't get sick. We're in the third trimester. She's been sick the whole time. It's not good I feel bad for her. And it's about to be summertime. Yeah, it's going to be hot as fuck. We got the air turned down in the house. I like it cold, so it doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 3:So I think it's one and done, and then it'll be good because all my focus can be there, you know are you going to take time off of tattooing for a little bit, or be?
Speaker 3:off for like a month and a half, for sure, just so I can get in the rhythm and help out. And then I need to be in the rhythm too, because I don't really know how to take care of a baby. So she's, she's going to show me some things, obviously, but when I come excuse me when I come back to work, I'll be with the baby all day and then we'll do a switch and I'll work at night.
Speaker 2:I know you're never going to call me, but you know you could always call me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know Some advice. Like I'll be calling you with a drawing, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, you got some situation like B. I don't know what the fuck to do. I got tricks, bro. Yeah, it's my shift.
Speaker 1:I don't know what the fuck to do. I got, I got tricks, bro. Yeah, it's my shift.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know what to do on my shift. Yeah, yeah, that's exciting. Uh, it's, it's a new lease on life. Um, it reaffirms love. You feel me like love changes when you have a baby. I know you're probably not all into that shit or love or whatever, but it changes the way you view your parents and how they view you. So it just offers this crazy perspective. With all this history, that's already happened, right, yeah, so now you get to see your dad's position, you get to see your mom's position, you get to see your brother's position with his kids. Yeah, and like you know, when you're a single guy or whatever, like it's nothing when a motherfucker don't buy a gift or whatever whatever but when it's your child, it is different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'm excited to see that for you. You know what I mean. See the ways that it'll change you, man because it'll all be good things. You know, you've been on good shit for a long time. I feel like you've been making solid decisions, bro yeah. You even making solid decisions, bro yeah.
Speaker 3:You feel me, I try Right.
Speaker 2:Right, why fuck up now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, can you imagine? No, I'm not going to fuck up now, I'll call you too.
Speaker 2:Like cause you fucking up? Yeah, I'll call you so quick Like ugh, you ain't shit, yeah, you know Well, luckily, I probably won't fuck up, don't?
Speaker 2:worry, but I don't, you know, I don't, uh, I don't do anything out of my realm, you know? Yeah, like that's kind of one of the reasons I wanted to bring you on. I feel like you're a perfect example of what young tattooers should strive for. You know what I mean. Even though you would be considered an og within the game, your habits have stood the test of time and you, you know, you may draw a little bit more here. You may draw a little bit more here. You may draw a little bit, but you're not doing these crazy, fucking oh, look at me gimmicky things. Yeah, you know what I mean. I've never even seen you do a giveaway. No, I don't do giveaways. Yeah, mike, don't do no giveaways, but you stay consistent. Well, what's the cheat?
Speaker 3:code. I don't know what the cheat code is, but I know that I have clients that have been with me a really long time, really long time. Like we're filling their bodies up and when they go out in the world and they got a sleeve that looks cool, you know, they send me somebody else and they send me somebody else and they send me somebody else. And I've never treated anybody like shit. I've never blatantly ripped anybody off. Like even if I don't, if I don't do what I expect out of myself, at the end of the thing, like dude, I'll take a bunch of money off, like and I hate doing that to myself because it does take time.
Speaker 3:Tattooing takes a long time, but if you know the one thing, I do a lot. Which I hate that I do it is I'll be like oh yeah, that thing will be done in like three hours. And then it takes me like five hours and I'm like fuck man.
Speaker 4:So, I only charge them for the three hours because I remember quoting them like oh, it's three hours, or whatever. You know what I mean I do and I just screw myself over.
Speaker 3:But at the end of the day, like I think they recognize it. You know, like, like, damn this guy's, like he's not out. I'm not out to get every dollar somebody's willing to pay like. I'm just out to get what I think I deserve for it. And I've been told many times like that's a bad way to run a business by a lot of people, but it seems to work for me.
Speaker 2:So is the integrity of an artist more important than the art I don't know? And a tattooer?
Speaker 3:I have no idea. I think that's a personal question for whoever. You know, there's people that hold themselves way higher than they should. You know, I might hold myself a little bit lower, but right.
Speaker 2:Like an abstract fucking, I don't know you know, impressionist tattoo artists who are like the leaf people who put the leaf songs Some people, people.
Speaker 3:There's somebody out there that loves that and they'll pay whatever they're told to pay, you know. So if they're catering to that, then that's who they're going to get. That it goes back to those type of people will never come to me. They're never going to come for a solid, traditional word travels yeah, it does.
Speaker 2:Word travels. You tell one. It's being heard by five. Bad tattoos travel very fast in tattooing. I remember one time I fucked up a tattoo here and it was on one of the artist's peoples and I got a lash in. Remember that shit? What was it? On One of Jim's peoples?
Speaker 3:It was on a knee artist's peoples and I got a lashie Remember that shit.
Speaker 2:What was it on One of Jim's peoples? It was on a knee.
Speaker 3:Oh, I don't remember that shit, I don't remember it. God, that sucks, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anyway, that's not the point. I just brought back triggers for shit. It was in this room. You know what I mean, but word travels very, very fast in tattooing. I hear about these guys If.
Speaker 4:Jim's tattooed the same person that I've tattooed they will talk about Mike, if Mike has tattooed this person and I may have tattooed him.
Speaker 2:They will talk about it Like Renee. Renee Walker, the realtor, yeah yeah, you know she comes in all the time. Oh, mike is the best, mike is the best.
Speaker 4:And that's kind of how you can tell how tattooers are doing.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like, if they're, if you're sharing clients, or how do you feel about that Sharing client?
Speaker 3:I don't care. Yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 2:I was around this tattoo the other day and he had tattooed this client and then the other one. The artist had called him like yo, what you doing?
Speaker 3:What? Yeah, well, that had called him like yo. What you doing? What? Yeah, well, that's a some spoiled baby shit to me. It's like I like seeing if my client leaves and goes and gets a tattoo. I just want to see it. Yeah, I want to see how good it is.
Speaker 2:I think it's crazy to put an emotion on like oh, that's mine, because it is so not yours.
Speaker 3:that will fucking hurt your feelings so fast. It's your, it's their body, it's theirs. They do whatever the fuck they want with it. You ever had anybody like?
Speaker 2:fuck up a sleeve by putting something in the middle of one of your sleeves or anything.
Speaker 3:Maybe, but I can't, I can't really recall. Even if it was, I wouldn't even consider it a fuck up. I'd just be like, oh, that's cool, I'll work around it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll work around it. Yeah, I was working on this dude and I have. It's probably one of my best traditional sleep and he allowed somebody to put a fucking big ass, fucking flower in it and it's off set.
Speaker 3:That shit pissed me off. You just gotta work around it.
Speaker 2:That shit pissed me off a little bit Once it's all filled in.
Speaker 3:It doesn't mean anything. You know the ego of me, of the tattooer like how?
Speaker 2:like what the fuck do I own? You know, that's one thing about tattooing. That is because you deal with these people on these intimate occasions, sometimes I always felt like I was more into their lives or like I was a bigger part of their lives than I am. You're just a blip dude.
Speaker 3:Yeah, bro, like straight up Dude we're a couple hours in a day, in a week, in a year, in a month, and we're gone, yep, and that thing lasts with them until they die.
Speaker 2:You ever had to rebuild your clientele from nothing.
Speaker 3:When I hurt my back, yeah.
Speaker 2:How was that?
Speaker 3:Shitty back, yeah, how was that Shitty? Yeah, yeah, but there were some people that stuck around, a couple for sure. There were some people that uh, helped me out through it when I would hit him up and I'd be like, hey, or they'd hit me up or whatever. I'd be like I can only work an hour at a time, or else my back, like I remember that is dying. But there were people there that would be like, oh, that's cool. And then they would pay me, like way more than they needed to.
Speaker 3:that's cool and they were just so awesome about it, like my buddy matt, for example, and anthony they'd like for sure stuck around through like some of the harder times. My buddy Ricky I saw him yesterday, yeah he came by.
Speaker 2:We were talking about his downhill or his mountain biking Dude if he was younger, he'd be a professional. Some people are just cool.
Speaker 3:He's a cool dude.
Speaker 2:He's a cool dude. He got that old BMX.
Speaker 3:Fucking cool guy shit, he races mountain bikes and road bikes, yeah, and that dude's like an athlete. And a year after I hurt my back, he ended up breaking his back and he was in a back brace too. So it was kind of funny. And we've been boys forever yeah, forever. And I had to go over there like, hey, dude, this year's gonna be a little rough for you. I was like, if you need somebody call, you can call me and talk you to it. But he came back, he. He came back, got all fixed up and, uh, just started racing bikes. But he because he crashed on his motorcycle at the track yeah, he was going for like a triple or quadruple, I don't know, but he cased it. And then when he landed, he it, uh, it compressed his spine and he broke like the elf, shatter, the elf or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he got wrecked. Yeah, he got wrecked. Yeah, he got wrecked, he's like he's walking yeah yeah, that's if you're international guys.
Speaker 2:Uh, riverside southern california is pretty much a mecca of motorcycles, off-road motorsports and all that stuff, so we will often tailor towards that side of things a lot of people. That's what they do. Everybody out here is in the dirt. There's seasons they're either snowboarding at the river or you know, and glamorous, you know that's what everybody does out here in Southern California. So, mike, some do's and don'ts. Do's and don'ts Of what Do. Hit you up if you want a what, anything, anything, anything. Okay, yeah, don't hit you up if you want to.
Speaker 1:Just hang out, yeah, just grab a beer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're like nah, I don't know, I mean nothing gets to me that bad. You know, like I'll deal with people who are super picky. The one thing I'll say don't do is just like tell me what you want, but then a day of don't change 500 things Like that's I can. That's hard to work with, I can do it and I will do it, but it doesn't make my day nice, you know it. Just tell me what you want straight out the gate, like and it's perfect, and I'll, I'll nail everything you want in that tattoo. Cool, but then, yeah, that's the only thing. I mean. It doesn't even bother me that bad, to be honest, but it does make your day a little bit harder.
Speaker 4:Black and gray or color.
Speaker 3:I like both. Yeah, I have no preference on that. I think some things might look a little better in black and gray or color. You know what I mean 100% Like, for I don't know why, but in my brain, like if you're doing a memorial tattoo, I always think they look better in black and gray. Okay, that's just for what I like. But, dude, if you want some sunflowers or something memorial tattoo and color, that's totally cool too. I just think the lettering goes good with it, you know.
Speaker 2:You have any conventions or any projects or anything that you have lined up for tattooing.
Speaker 3:Just got a baby coming. That's it. Yeah, you're so. I'll be out all of September, early part of October.
Speaker 2:And that doesn't mean stop hitting them up, man. You guys keep hitting getting those tattoos. Yeah, you can draw while you're at home.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm going to be drawing a lot. Yeah, that'll be fun.
Speaker 2:You can draw while he's at home, so hit Mike up, guys, any last minute questions no man.
Speaker 3:Is there anything.
Speaker 2:How are you feeling? I feel good.
Speaker 1:Okay cool. Yeah, this is good For our roundup portion. You came with a quote.
Speaker 3:The only quote I can remember off the top of my head is three can keep a secret if two are dead.
Speaker 1:I liked that. I heard it. I actually cheated and I heard it before the episode and I dug it. I feel like any quote that you remember is worth saying.
Speaker 3:Well, it's one of the truest things too. You get wrapped up in something with three people. Somebody's talking, probably the other two, and if you have to do something with three people that requires a secret it's probably a big problem. Yeah, man, yeah, people, that requires a secret it's probably a big problem. Yeah, man, yeah, and you also. Yeah, I've, you know you can always do the whole. Uh, well, I promise to tell the next person.
Speaker 4:I won't say anything yeah, because somebody's always going to say something you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, mike, thank you so much for coming on. Uh, love your work. I wear your tattoos. They still look fucking good, so I appreciate that, thank you, I still want to get that rooster.
Speaker 3:It's on that table out, there, is it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I still want to get that rooster. Really enjoy working with you.
Speaker 4:I miss working with you.
Speaker 2:Man dude, I do too. You know what I mean Really enjoy working with you.
Speaker 4:This is a gift from B to Z. Man dude, I do too. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Really enjoy working with you. This is a gift from B to Z oh thank you, to you, oh man.
Speaker 4:That's too much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man we're trying to do something different, man. We're putting people on who we think are pivotal. We're blue collar. We haven't made anything yet. You know, everybody claims to be blue collar and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going Blames to be blue collar and all that stuff, and yeah, we'll just say we just got two subscriptions. So we got, we got, we got 10 bucks. We're paid to be here. So I was. I was excited. Yeah, a couple of weeks, so yeah.
Speaker 3:You'll have to allow them to ask questions you know Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely I have. I have that on our page. You're free to reach out to us Also, dm us at any times, and I appreciate you coming on the show as well.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me. I'll come anytime. I love talking to Brandon. We used to sit here and chat for days. We used to talk about the things, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, Brandon can talk forever too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, it depends yeah, I like to talk, man it depends to certain individuals. Oh okay, if we could, if we could go back and forth and keep, it going keep that furnace lit and have fun. Yeah, add a little bit of craziness and some fun, then I'll talk to you. But if you're fucking lame I don't want anything to do I know?
Speaker 1:I've seen him go cold on people and now I'm like knowing this side of him. Yeah, I'm like oh, oh shit, he must not like that guy.
Speaker 3:I can get real cold. I'm trying to enjoy life. I'm truly enjoying life.
Speaker 2:I call these moments, man. You know, like it didn't. I didn't know these episodes would have this type of gravity upon me, upon the earth, and like all of those things, things, but it's been fucking cool. You know, I'm talking to my homies while I do it, you know, and they say do the things that you love and let that make money for you. And that's that's what we're doing. This is a newfound hobby. Yeah, it's a newfound hobby, hobbies, right get hobbies right, and everybody knows watching tv.
Speaker 2:Right, my hobbies are usually my kids, yeah, so like I used to be, like yo, how was the ride? Because I'd be at home.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like every once in a while I'd be out there. You know what I mean. But uh, I can't say enough about you, dude. Your tattoos are fucking dope. You're a fucking printer. Keep it up. Uh, the technical skills are on point. Um, yeah, man, we're just gonna keep fucking it up and getting money, you feel?
Speaker 4:me.
Speaker 2:There's a whole lot we could have talked about, but that'll be for season fucking two, season two okay, yeah, when's? Season two. Uh, we got jim next and I'm calling the season finale.
Speaker 1:I don't know how's that gonna be well, it'll be about 20 episodes.
Speaker 2:Uh, what we're gonna land on awesome. Yeah, that's why I was asking those to kind of like lead into Jim because this is Jim's fucking.
Speaker 4:This is Jim's guy right here.
Speaker 2:We got him in a week. He helps the magic. You feel me? These two wizards. They do their thing and I enjoy them, so I hope you guys appreciated today's episode. I'm Brandon, that's Mike McAskill and this is Zach Batista. Thank you.
