B to Z
Mental health and wellness
B to Z
Ink and Empathy: Danielle McKnight's Journey in Tattoo Artistry and Life Mastery
Ever wondered how a black and gray palette redefines the canvas of melanated skin? Dive into a heartfelt conversation with Danielle McKnight, a trailblazing tattoo artist whose 16 years of experience has seen her evolve from vibrant color tattoos to the intricate depths of black and gray. This episode isn't just skin deep; we traverse the importance of client education, the personal stories etched in ink, and the broader strokes of permanent makeup – including the candid tale of an intimate area tattoo that challenges our understanding of aesthetic autonomy.
Navigating the tattoo industry isn't all smooth sailing, especially when the currents of addiction and systemic issues threaten to pull you under. Danielle opens up about her journey toward sobriety and how it reshaped her approach to tattooing amidst the industry's rock star culture. But she's not the only one steering through choppy waters; we share our own struggles and triumphs, acknowledging the need for safe workspaces, the role of politics in our professional lives, and the hurdles black artists face, amplified by the intersectionality of race and gender.
Our episode wraps up with the warmth of community involvement and the quest for personal fulfillment beyond the buzz of the tattoo machine. From food rescue initiatives to redefining masculinity and relationships, we stitch together the rich tapestry of our lives. Danielle's insights into seeking a partner who meets her standards, handling unwanted attention with grace, and the power of embracing one's cultural identity reinforce the episode's resonating message: in the artistry of life, choose empathy, respect, and unwavering support for one another.
Good morning, good morning, good morning, may 20th 2024. I'm here this is Zach Dista here with my co-host, brandon May. It's a beautiful 64 degrees, a little cloudy, and we're in Long Beach today with a very special guest, danielle McKnight.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody, woo LBC strong beach, let's go Strong beach and I don't know if you knew this.
Speaker 1:He's told me before. Actually, I'll get something out of the way. I'm very familiar with this shop because Danielle is working on a lake sleeve for me right now. Brandon's very familiar with this area. He grew up in this area.
Speaker 2:Nice, this is my second home. Went to high school, middle school, moved out here to middle school. I finished high school and then moved back to Riverside, right off Ocean Inn, atlantic oh literally right here, right around the corner. This is my old shopping ground, so welcome home. I used to do play arcade games at the laundromat Super Mix, that's my spot.
Speaker 3:I barely just went there for the first time last month. Oh, it's fire.
Speaker 1:Really good so. I haven't been there yet, so I gotta try it next time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was't been there yet, so I'm waiting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I got to try it next time, so how are you feeling this morning, you good.
Speaker 3:I'm good.
Speaker 2:Thank you for letting us get this interview.
Speaker 3:And thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it. This is an amazing, super cool opportunity, so I'm glad to be here. So I love what you guys are doing.
Speaker 2:Just to give you guys a little bit of a brief bio on Danielle. She's been tattooing for 16 years. She specializes in neo-traditional realism, color work and all types of tattooing. We can't pigeon her. She'll still do a lot of other styles too, but the new era of tattooing. You got to be categorized now. What's your favorite style out of those that you enjoy?
Speaker 3:I'd say neo-traditional has always been my favorite. When I first started tattooing, I was like, oh, I want to be a neo-traditional artist. I really really, as an artist, liked the work of Alphonse Mucha. He has a really art nouveau style of artwork so I was always really, really infatuated with his artwork and I was like, oh, I want to tattoo like that, and this is before. Neo-traditional was like what it is today. Um so and that was 16 years ago when I first started tattooing I was like I want this style, I want to do this, and now it's like, that's like one of the top styles that a lot of artists are are going for. Um, so that's probably my favorite. I recently just got into more portrait and realism, black and gray work I just hate doing black and gray, really hate doing black and gray.
Speaker 3:Why it was so hard for me? Okay, um, I feel like because with black and gray, like with color, you have so many unlimited amount of colors, like your color palette is just endless so you can mess with, you know, shadow, lighting, highlights and stuff like that a little bit easier, contrast a little bit easier with black and gray. You're just relegated to a few tones. Yeah, you know what I mean. So that in order to get that contrast, like you really got to know what you're doing right, so you know. And then you know, overworking the skin, shit, be all red at the end, like what did I do? And he was like shit, because all of it falls out.
Speaker 3:Like, so I'm just like I ain't even trying to fuck with this. I hated it. I was like I'm gonna be a color artist through and through. And then probably in the last like two years maybe, honestly, after I moved out here, maybe two or three years, I just started doing a lot more black and gray and I started paying attention to a lot more black and gray artists and kind of breaking down tattoos as like, instead of looking at the tattoo as a whole, breaking it down and looking at each little piece like, oh, I can do that.
Speaker 4:I could do that. Well, I can do that.
Speaker 3:And then it becomes a little bit easier and, uh, not so intimidating when you look at it kind of in pieces, um, and I was like you know what I'm, I'm really getting into this style, um. And then I had a client who came in and wanted um on his forearm. He wanted half of a lion face on one side and then half of a tiger face on the other side, and normally I'd be like I can't do that and I something inside me. I was just like no fuck, I could do that I could do that and it I surprised the fuck out of myself.
Speaker 2:I was like damn bitch look at you, okay, okay, I can do this one of the things that kind of intrigues me about um you being a female black tattoo artist.
Speaker 4:You feel me, which is super dope, you feel me she's like a unicorn out here y'all you know what I mean, so it's a shop owner deal?
Speaker 2:yeah, and a shop owner thank you yeah um, when you're doing color work and a person uh, you know black skin comes in african-american person comes in um and they ask you for color. What is your response?
Speaker 3:so they'll usually tell me oh, I've been to x amount of shops and they all tell me I can't do color. And it's not that these artists are telling them I don't know how to color on melanated skin, it's you can't get color as a black person. So they're automatically under the assumption that, oh, I'm black, I can't have color tattoos and I'm like you agree or disagree?
Speaker 3:Um, I disagree. I mean, it definitely depends on your skin tone and then you might be limited to a color palette of what you can do on melanated skin. Um, but I just had a gentleman come in who was probably about your complexion and did some bright ass color work on him right you know what I mean, and it's am I.
Speaker 3:It was funny because my brother had uh commented on it because I posted on my story and he was like so the gag is um, if you can't do this on melanated skin, you just can't tattoo and that was the runes right.
Speaker 1:The different rooms, yeah, it's uh dinkers they're like african symbols.
Speaker 3:Thank you, um, but it was bright on his skin. Now, obviously, you want to see how that heals, because you know it. I tell people all the time when tattoos heal a thin layer of your skin, heals over it. So it's like looking at that color through, like a tinted lens kind of um. So the more melanin you have in your skin, the more influence that healed layer of skin is going to have over how the final product of the tattoo looks once it's healed. Um, so he's actually coming in um again. We're going to add to that piece at the end of the month so I'll be able to see how it looks healed. Get some pictures and stuff like that. You know, cause everybody on the internet nowadays. Well, I want to see it healed. What does it look like healed?
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Which is valid you know it's very important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because the tricksters out there, exactly, or the photoshop people who you know, let me bump this up. You know, let me bump up this contrast and um, so you know you do, you definitely do want to see what things look like healed. Um, especially, too, that's always a teaching moment for artists, because it's like okay, now I know how this healed on this person, now I know if I need to adjust or if what we did the first time around is going to work you know, what I mean.
Speaker 3:Um, but I I do dislike the fact that there are artists out here who are telling people who are melanated you can't get color when it's really. I don't know how to do color on melanated skin and not everybody knows how to do it, even you know I took a little time until I moved out here. Like moving out here. I have so many more black clients now than I did when I was living in Rancho.
Speaker 3:OK you know what I mean, and I think also having my own shop and being able to advertise that it's black owned, female owned, I get more people who come in like, oh, it's a sister doing tattoos.
Speaker 4:Oh.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna go to her Cause she knows how to deal with our skin because she is also a black woman.
Speaker 1:Um, it's a comfort level type thing, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I understand people who are not melanated, maybe not being comfortable with tattooing melanated skin, um, whether it's because they haven't had the experience in doing it, depending on, maybe, their geographic location, what the diversity is like where they're tattooing or where they live, or it just might be intimidating because that's not usually what you see marketed. Also, because most of the tattoos that we show off are on lighter skin, because there is more contrast that you can achieve with lighter skin tones, um, so you do have to kind of pull out those tricks and stuff to tell a tattoo on melanated skin, and not everybody knows how to do that or even as comfortable doing that, um. But I am here to tell everybody that black folks can get color too.
Speaker 1:I mean I know it can't be done. Yeah, you know, I get color too, it can be done.
Speaker 3:I'm like high yellow. I got color too.
Speaker 2:I was going to jump in on that. I'm going to give you, if seal, the singer comes in and says hey D, I want some color.
Speaker 3:What are you? Going to tell them.
Speaker 2:Can't do it. Is there a limitation?
Speaker 3:There's definitely a limitation. So I do tell people who happen to be a little bit darker toned um, these are like a range of colors that will work on you. So obviously yellow's out, you know what I mean. Orange is probably out isn't that a trip?
Speaker 2:a trip how yellow looks, yeah, how chalky it gets and stuff. Because even.
Speaker 3:You know I have yellow on me and I mean this is like an older tattoo, but you know it's not the. I can tell it's yellow because I knew it. You know, I know it used to be yellow, but, um, I usually would tell people who are darker skin tone, like probably more reds, greens and blues will work on their skin tone looks dope green looks badass and that's one of the colors that I used on my client was green, and it's so vibrant even the red was very vibrant on his skin.
Speaker 3:So reds and greens money usually on darker skin blues. If it's like a lighter blue and it's one of the more opaque blues, like a baby blue or robin's egg blue from eternal, um, I find that those show up really well on darker skin too so obviously, the darker you go, the more limited you are for your color palette, and the lighter you go, the more options that you do have it's a slippery slope, though, too it is because things get muddy really really quick they do and I feel like in black skin, when our tattoos heal, they saturate out a little bit.
Speaker 2:So it's uh, it's a gamble, it is very much so it's a gamble and I tell clients that too.
Speaker 3:Like you know, it might look super dope when you leave, and when it heals it might be a whole different story. You know, um, you want to tell people that, so they're not like, hey, you fucked up my tattoo, bitch.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean Fix it for free, exactly.
Speaker 3:So it's like you know, there's always a disclaimer, like you know, hey, this may or may not heal the way that you're thinking, or it's not going to look, you know. But I tell all clients your tattoo is not going to look, you know. But I tell all clients, your tattoo is not going to look how it does when you leave here. You know, a month, three months, a year, five years, 10 years down the road, just because that's, you know, that's how your, your skin heals over the tattoo and a thin layer, so it's never going to be as bright as it is when you first leave you know, and some people aren't aware of that, strangely.
Speaker 1:And you, more recently, got into permanent makeup too yeah, how has that transition been for you?
Speaker 3:it's actually been really cool. I got licensed to do permanent makeup last year, um, for eyebrows, um, so I do like, uh, microblading, nano brow powder, brow stuff, like that correction. Um, and I never people would ask me all the time do you do eyebrows, can you do my eyebrows? And I'm like, I am not messing with your face, like I'm just not going to do it Because permanent makeup, tattooing and tattooing.
Speaker 3:tattooing are two wildly different things, you know. You see people who go into a traditional tattoo shop and get eyebrows done and look at a hot mess Because the technique is not the same, the ink is not even the same, is not the same, the ink is not even the same. Tattoo, or, I'm sorry, um, permanent makeup pigment is meant to fade over time and not stay as dark. That's which is why you have to get touch-ups constantly, because eyebrow trends are are always changing.
Speaker 3:um, so if you take, you know, some intense triple black, put that on somebody's eyebrows, they're gonna be looking a hot mess very bad you know so and we've all seen those people with these like dark all surprised yeah, just like, oh damn yeah, and it's, and it's usually people who don't know anything about eyebrow shape or but it's like you know, the people who do it just out of traditional tattoo shops, who have no background in, like symmetry, or where the arch should be, or where the tail should end and the front should start, like it's real easy to mess up somebody's eyebrows yeah, I want no part, yeah, so it's a whole different ball game.
Speaker 3:Um, and what? What got me to actually think of, even think about entertaining doing permanent makeup? Obviously it's a lot more popular now. Um, but there was actually I got a phone call um here at the shop and some man, older dude, called and he was like, yeah, my wife, um, you know, wants she has like a birthmark on her lower back, like near her tailbone, and she wants to see if she can get it tattooed over. I'm like you mean like a color correction. And he was like, yeah, she wants it lightened up, like you know. And I was like, okay, we'll have her come in, I'll see what I can do. So she came in and it was like this older white man and like this younger Asian woman. So I was like, okay, so I take her to the back and it's not on her lower back, it is literally in her ass. Crack, like.
Speaker 3:Oh booty hole territory oh wow Like cause. You know how, like everybody's, you're inside your butt crack is darker than the rest yeah. So she just went back there spread them open. I said oh, that's so.
Speaker 1:It's not your lower back, it's not your lower back, it's your booty back, it's your cheeks. Wait, wait, wait. I knew we were going to touch on something. I've never heard this story before. I've never heard this story before I never told you the story, you never told me the booty hole story shut up.
Speaker 2:I thought, I told you the story so she was trying to get lightened up yeah, so you know how they do but, for him, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, it's for him, it's more for him, yeah, so you
Speaker 1:know, I've never once looked at a booty hole and was like no, I was like not in disguise, not in disguise, I'll it would be good if it was a few shades brighter.
Speaker 3:So my thing. Firstly, I'm like Just kind of accept it as it is. I asked her. I said, okay, do you want to do this? Or is it because he wants you to do it? Because anytime I have couples come in and it's the guy saying, oh, my chick wants this done.
Speaker 2:I'm like Is that the feminist? She can speak for herself.
Speaker 1:Yeah that's the feminist side. That's definitely feminist to me for sure. I'm like hold up. Are you forcing her? I've got shield coming out, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're in jail.
Speaker 1:You're better than me, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I've told people I'm not going to do it before. Like, if you can't speak for yourself, it makes me feel like he's forcing you and I'm not. I won't have any part in that, like you know, and a lot of tattoo artists will just do shit because I'm just trying to get paid. I don't really care about the person, but I'm a very empathetic person and that is definitely the feminist social justice warrior in me, because that's a very permanent decision for somebody else to make for you, which is why I don't allow clients to bring people with them.
Speaker 3:Do not bring your mom in here. Don't bring your boyfriend. Don't bring your girlfriend or your wife. Don't bring your girlfriend or your wife, or you don't bring anybody. Don't bring your best friend, who thinks that they're a tattoo artist because they watch ink master 25 times.
Speaker 3:Come by yourself because, this is a permanent decision for you, um, but I, you know, I asked her. I was like is this, do you want to do it, or is it because he doesn't like it? And she was like well, you know I don't like it. You know men don't like it and you know I just, I just want to lighten it up, like it's bothering me. I'm like girl, so you sit and look at your booty on the mirror yeah, you know, yeah, and you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but I
Speaker 3:don't think a lot of men really give a fuck about that you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:I might be wrong somebody out there.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's like you know, this is really bothering, yeah tap in tap in.
Speaker 3:You say any of us DM if booty hole color bothers you go ahead, let us know, yeah, let us know because I'm very curious to see what the demographics on that are.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you saved this, for that I didn't know, I heard, I heard. I heard save this for that.
Speaker 4:I didn't know, I really thought that. I told you that I told her.
Speaker 3:I was like okay, like you know, I'll do it, um, you know. But I also gave her a warning. I'm like this might be a thing that takes a few sessions. Um, again, because the way your skin heals over it, it might take a few sessions, you know, to lighten it up. And because this is also not like anal bleaching, like that's a completely different um procedure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like you're getting your hands, yeah so and it's like you know, close together all the time.
Speaker 2:So it's sweating and shit.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So I told her I'd do it and you gotta shit, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it was a very interesting experience and then, she had like some stretch marks on her butt she probably had chilies before she came in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it was a very interesting experience. And then she had like some stretch marks on her butt that she wanted me to like go over. So it was definitely a very interesting experience, but that is literally what got me into.
Speaker 1:Maybe I should do permanent makeup, you know what I'm saying, but you did the tattoo, yeah. How long did it take?
Speaker 3:I did it twice. She had two sessions.
Speaker 2:And I think we did like maybe an hour or two, oh that's a big old butthole.
Speaker 3:I mean, it wasn't, but I just wanted to say that, no matter how long she said, I was gonna say yeah, yeah, that's a big, old, normal size but you know, I wanted to be delicate because that's a delicate area, so I wanted to make sure I was taking my time, making sure I was saturating it correctly, because that was the first time I ever tattooed somebody booty hole. You know what I mean. So it's a different experience for me too, but that's literally what got me into doing permanent makeup, because I'm like you know what maybe I should get into eyebrows I eyebrows, I can do whatever I want, that's just my eyebrows.
Speaker 3:Sky's the limit now yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:She was looking at it like, yeah, that's how I wanted it. Put some highlights in there. Finish with the white.
Speaker 3:What the hell. That was definitely one of my more crazy tattoo experiences. I'll never forget that.
Speaker 1:I hope she's doing well Not to. But as a caveat to that, I every time I'm in here it's like a a regular, traditional shop, as in everybody's coming in, everybody's bullshitting. But it's entirely different, vibe, yeah, you get the neighbor coming in. Oh, I heard someone who was here and he just comes and bullshits with you for a few minutes. It's like being.
Speaker 3:It's like cheers. He brings me food and shit, sometimes speaking of cheers.
Speaker 1:Congratulations on your three-year sobriety thank you, your your sober birthday. Yeah, just came off to you. Yeah, you um. I hope out anyone who is struggling um. I hope they see you as motivation.
Speaker 3:And I tell people all the time, like if you are struggling, you can reach out to me, like I am your internet big sis and you can reach out to me whether you're struggling with, you know, any kind of um, addiction, substance abuse, mental health, um, you know I, and that's why I'm so open with my story, you know about my sobriety journey and my alcoholism, because I wish I had somebody to look up to and to get information from when I was going through my shit. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:I didn't really, you know you have people who are there for you, like your family and your friends and stuff like that, who are like, oh you know, you can come to me and you can talk to me, and you're grateful for those people. But it's like, but you haven't really seen my struggle by being in my struggle.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. So it's like as much as having that support system in that community helps immensely. Um, you know you want to see somebody else who has gone through the struggle and made it out the other side. You know what I mean. Um, because it's getting sober is the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life and I did not think I was going to be able to do it.
Speaker 3:Um, I did. I had to go to rehab for 30 days. Um, and what set that in motion was 2020 is when I realized that I had a drinking problem. Um, because before that it was just like oh, I'm just a party girl, I just like to party and have my friends, and then everybody I hung out with was always drinking.
Speaker 3:So I'm like, well, all of us can't have a problem you know, and then it was, you know, when I was at home drinking by myself and crying all the time, and you know 2020, we were all in the house. I would wake up at 9am and start doing shots. You know what I mean and I'm like this is not normal.
Speaker 3:Like this is not normal behavior, and I poured bottles of vodka down the sink multiple times and I'm like, okay, today's the day that I'm going to, I'm going to stop, you know, or at least I'm going to cut back, and I'd go a week without drinking. And then I would celebrate going a week without drinking by drinking, and I'm like this is not, this is not helping you're stuck in the loop.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was being stuck in that loop. And then you know I'm like, okay, well, maybe I'll just cut out hard alcohol, you know. So then I was just doing like the trulies and the white claws and beer, but then I'm like I kind of want a shot. I'm just gonna get like a little baby bottle of something, and then it's the next size bigger, and then it's the next size bigger. So that's when I was like, okay, you know, I have a problem, I have a problem. And then that year is also when I started, um, like my spiritual, spiritual journey, um, and so I was like wrestling with, like being on this, like new spiritual journey, but also being an alcoholic and like changing who I, you know, changing the way that I looked at the world and life.
Speaker 2:Were you an owner at that point.
Speaker 3:No, that was when I was still out in Rancho, and tattooing in Fontana, so this wasn't even on my radar at all.
Speaker 2:I remember having an apprentice who was interested in the toxic side of tattooing and a lot of people don't talk about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But there is a very there's a, I guess an invisible rope. Yeah, you know what I mean, I guess, as you could describe it, the underworld of tattooing is drugs, yeah, alcohol, sex.
Speaker 1:It's like a rock star culture.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a rock star culture.
Speaker 2:yeah, you know and you're infused into it from the beginning yeah you know, and it's up to you to kind of make a decision on how you want to play in this party. You know, and in the beginning, yeah, you do start off a little drinking and it's really, really fun and it's like, but then it doesn't go away because it's our lifestyle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:So then you get these individuals who do it and they build these habits, but it's based off of their lifestyle. So this is our job.
Speaker 4:We go to conventions.
Speaker 2:You know, somebody's got something, you do a little something you know you drink the whole time you're there. Maybe you're slow and we're. Freedom is sometimes our, our worst enemy. Yes, most definitely. And um, there is nobody to hold us accountable within our job to say, hey, there is no boss for us. To say, hey, don't drink that before you start tattooing. Exactly you know what I mean don't smoke that before you start tattooing so like when you become a tattooer and you dive into this industry.
Speaker 2:It's pivotal that you, you know, have a, you're grounded and you have a good structure of how you want to be perceived. You have your walls up. You have to tell people. No. You literally have to tell people no. You literally have to make friends that are not within that style of work that aren't lost in the sauce, and sometimes it's not the cool crowd.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, but you know when you see these artists like Peacock and these straight edge artists and all these individuals have gone through these sobriety moments. Tattooing is a big influence of some people's downfalls.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And it kills people and it causes suicide and you know it may start your drug addiction. So I just wanted to bring that up because it's a lot more common than what you guys would think. Most definitely, Some tattoo artists and shops start with a bottle and end with a bottle. You know what I mean. Those are a lot of older habits that are kind of making it in today's modern day tattooing. You know the fun stuff people don't really want to let go of.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, but it is definitely causes it's a bit of turmoil and you know this is a story about how like you've handled yours, which is dope. You know I have more questions about adversity within tattooing and that kind of tailors off of it I don't want to stray too far away from the health and wellness. Is there anything you wanted to say to um with you about what you were just saying? I kind of round up before.
Speaker 3:I mean just. You know, my sobriety not only saved my life, because I did try to kill myself. Um and that was what prompted my going to rehab. Nobody knew it was that bad until I did that and I, like, went to the emergency room and essentially tried to. I tried to give myself alcohol poisoning, but when you have a tolerance as large as mine was because I was an alcoholic, didn't quite make that, so it didn't work you know.
Speaker 3:And I showed up to the ER and the doctor's like do you know what your blood alcohol is? And I like no, it's 0.34. And he's like this is like borderline pretty much alcohol poisoning, yeah walking like people are like unconscious at this point, and the fact that you are lucid and talking to me normally is like that's alarming. My liver levels were off the chart, like your. Normal. Liver levels are supposed to be between one and 37.
Speaker 3:Mine were over a thousand, so there were 30 times what they were supposed to be Um so you were feeling it too. Huh, you know what the thing was like with my liver being jacked up like that, like I didn't realize, cause you can't see inside yourself and I wasn't having like any abnormal pains or anything. Yeah. Um and I wasn't having like any abnormal pains or anything. Yeah, um, I was only seeing the destruction in my mental health.
Speaker 3:you, know, because my alcoholism was brought on by depression, um, and anxiety and trauma.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean?
Speaker 3:Um, and I had drank since college, but it got really bad, um, at like the uh end of 2018 when I was raped, Um, and after that, I just downward spiraled, downward spiraled, was just getting fucked up Because I didn't want to be in here, you know what I mean. I didn't want to be alone, which is why I was always out at the bars every single night, like literally every night. I didn't want to be left alone with myself and my thoughts, so I could either go out and be around people or, if I was home, I just drink myself into oblivion, um, and it just got worse and worse and worse, and finally I was like I don't want to be here anymore and I tried to take my life, um, and I'm glad that I'm still here, um, you know, after that happened, my family was like, hey, will you go to rehab? And I'm like, absolutely, didn't even fight it. Like was like, please, yes, please, yes, went for 30 days and I was scared that I wasn't going to stay sober, and I've been sober ever since that day.
Speaker 2:Good for you, good for you, thank you. Yeah, I mean that's so hard, you know. Addiction is I'm trying to stop smoking right now. Yeah, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3:I feel like when.
Speaker 2:I hit a moment or whatever, and I kind of go back to it and it comforts me. I absolutely fucking hate it. I hate that. There's that weak spot in my brain.
Speaker 3:I'm just like, ah, motherfucker like what are you doing?
Speaker 2:you don't even want to do it it's hard.
Speaker 3:You know it's it's hard and people are like well, addiction's a choice and you know it's bullshit and it's like it. Who the fuck wants to be like that? Nobody wants to be like that. The shit is hard, bro, like you know what I mean. It's. It's a, literally it's a disease, you know.
Speaker 2:And as far as your job that you chose to, you didn't pick a very good job for like stress free environment.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like tattooing is very high anxiety.
Speaker 3:Oh, very much so being put on the spot and say create. Yeah, very much so.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 4:I hope I got it today Exactly you know, some days are better than others but it's fucking stressful, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:And you know. But I will say that since I've been sober and now that I'm just in a shop by myself, I am so much less stressed out. So much less stressed out, like I still have days where I'm like tired or exhausted, or I'm like, oh, I gotta execute this tattoo tomorrow, or oh, I got this. But for the most part, like I'm just so happy these days that I'm like and I also don't take on clients that I don't fuck with no more.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like I don't take on clients that I don't fuck with that, I don't vibe with that, I'm not jazzed about like, because I realized, like my brother is the one who told me like, bro, you don't have to tattoo everybody.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like you are your boss, like you don't got to tattoo everybody. But when you're in such that hustle mode and that hustle mentality oh, I got to make these, I got to make this money, I got to pay these bills Like I did it. But once I got to this point, to where I'm like comfortable and I'm like, bro, I just opened up a business, like I'm chilling, like I'm good, I don't have to tattoo everybody and there's something in that that just like transforms the way that you work. You know what I mean. Like I love all my clients. You know what I mean. Like before I used to have like some clients that were annoying or would get on my nerves, or like you know, that were rude or disrespectful or late, chronically, and I'm just like, oh my God, and it's like now I don't have to deal with that if I don't want to, right, you know it's your garden, you know you.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You want to be very specific about what seeds you you place in the ground and watch grow. Because, exactly, place in the ground and watch grow because and then you're going to be looking at a whole bunch of weeds or some roses.
Speaker 3:Exactly, you know so Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's huge. I'm very picky as far as my clientele as well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you should be.
Speaker 2:You know how we are.
Speaker 2:We're man, we are dissecting you guys' messages as soon as you send them and if we see a little bit of glimmer of bullshit, like tattoo artists are really good at sniffing that out, because for sure, it creates problems for us, and people who cause problems are hard to work with. You know, they're very hard to work with um. One of the questions that I wanted to ask you is how do you, how did you deal with um? Because you've been tattooing for 16 years and there was a big rule back in the day no girls in the shop yeah, oh yeah no girls in the shop and that's like it was a core rule like fuck, no, we don't want girls here.
Speaker 2:They fuck everything up and this. You know, I'm saying it like that because I gotta say it like a fucking true tattooer how it's said they fuck everything up fuck these bitches fuck these bitches. You know. Give me your opinion upon that. How do you feel about that being a female black tattoo artist? Um, because I agree and disagree.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly personally um, it's.
Speaker 3:I mean, I've definitely faced like a shit ton of adversity. Like, like, coming up in the tattoo industry. Um, I have left shops because of the way that I was treated because I was a woman. Um, I've been sexually harassed at shops that I worked at by people that I worked at. Um, I've been berated on a daily basis going into shops that I worked at. Like I literally worked at a shop and I'm sure everybody who knows me for a long time knows what shop I'm talking about when I say this but like I would go into the shop immediately. What's up, fat bitch? Like, or like I'd be tattooing a client. I'm like, hey, you know, your tattoo artist is a slut, right. And I'm just like, what in the fuck is your guy's problem?
Speaker 4:Um.
Speaker 3:I remember the owner of that shop actually called me the N-word in front of a walk-in and they were like bro, that is not cool. And he was like no, no, it's okay.
Speaker 2:And I'm like no, it's not, and that walk-in, walked out.
Speaker 3:They're like no, we're not getting tattooed here. And they even looked at me like what are you doing?
Speaker 1:What are you doing?
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, and it's just like because when I first started tattooing there, everything was fine and then when everybody started getting comfortable, that's when all of the jabs and all of the just malicious behavior started and I lost clients because of that. 100% Because my clients are like dude, you work in a toxic ass fucking environment.
Speaker 2:You don't got to tell me twice.
Speaker 3:But I was like damn, like where do I go? You know what I mean. Like now, I got to start all over at a different shop. You know what I mean Now, like what, if I?
Speaker 1:go through that worse. Yeah, exactly, go through the same type of behavior.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, because I left my first shop because it started becoming toxic, because I was being treated differently, because I was the only woman. And I'm like bro, like I like this is supposed to be family. You know what I mean. And it's like I remember when I first started there, I had a boyfriend and we had broken up, and so, you know, I'm like newly 21. So I'm like going out, enjoying life with my friends, and I don't know somebody had seen me when I was out one time and my mentor was like oh, so-and-so, saw you out with, you know, making out with some guy. And I'm like, and that's a problem, because like, that's none of your business.
Speaker 1:That's none of your business like I'm not at work like I.
Speaker 3:Like how is that in your business? And then it's like well, we don't want you to give the shop a bad name, so like, just don't wear the shop shirt when you go out. I'm like bro what you mean. But my first of all, I'm like all y'all are cheating on all your girlfriends.
Speaker 1:And why are you paying attention to my business?
Speaker 3:Why are you paying attention to my business? Cause I'm the only one.
Speaker 2:It's just the underlying bullshit to get to the issue that we don't want.
Speaker 3:We don't want a woman Like you should have taken on a female. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I find it hard to determine whether it's a black thing sometimes or not. You know I definitely feel the difference of how I'm treated and how my work is perceived. Yes, how reluctant people are to come up and just check your shit out even at a convention.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Some of this know the um, but that's not all.
Speaker 4:That's not mine, and yours fault, you know who's fucking fault?
Speaker 3:that is the black and crew. Well, that too, that too, and I.
Speaker 1:They asked me to be on that show and I said I said absolutely not after a good idea.
Speaker 4:They asked me to be on that show. That's his fucking phone.
Speaker 3:And I said absolutely not. After I did Ink Master, I was approached by VH1 or whatever fucking channel that's on. They're like oh, we want you to be on Black Ink Crew Chicago. And I was like absolutely not Right, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:Because, rather than promoting black artistry, we promote black drama.
Speaker 1:I'm a stereotype.
Speaker 4:Man yeah.
Speaker 2:Man and they used to be like oh B, you look like C-Shop. I'm like please don't ever tell me that, oh God. And I'll tattoo circles around that man.
Speaker 3:Because he's not even good. No, he's not that good and he doesn't even seem like a good person, I'll say it. Most of the motherfuckers on that.
Speaker 2:Because we're on the show doesn't mean like, yeah, say that shit we say it about people all the time just because you're black and you're on tv and we're black doesn't mean that you get a fucking pass this shit is garbage, garbage.
Speaker 3:I'm like I'll be looking. I'm like people are raving about this and people are kissing you're on tv. They blew up like they blew the fuck up and I had one of the guys that I was on ink master season eight with um, kevin leroy.
Speaker 2:He ended up I met kevin did you really, yeah, mike mccaskill's premiere.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was actually um, I went to mike's uh viewing party at uh is elizabeth street yeah um.
Speaker 2:You were there back at uh prohibition yes, I was there, I was there yeah yeah, I was there um.
Speaker 3:So yeah, mike's cool as hell, kevin's cool as fuck his work kevin's work is. You want to talk about a tattoo artist? Man, that's a tattoo artist. Yeah, kevin's work is badass man, like so when you look at him.
Speaker 4:Yes, that's a tattoo artist, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And now he's gone on to now he's on black ink compton, I believe, at uh cat shop.
Speaker 2:Um enigma so as he should be, though, because he, he, he puts, he's respectful. Yes, he, he shows black how I want it to be seen exactly you know, um and then I like how people fuck with him he over there tattooed mary j blige, and she loves him. It's not just the fact that he got there, it's the fact that he's keeping it real. His fashion is on point.
Speaker 4:His tattoos are on point when it comes to somebody that black tattoo artists can back. We 100% will back you, but as soon as we find a little bit, of bullshit.
Speaker 3:It's like I don't know man, I don't know.
Speaker 2:What do you think about that dude out of Atlanta who is claiming that he did tradition? He created traditional black tattoos.
Speaker 3:Oh the, what did he call it?
Speaker 2:He got like the dreadlocks and the glasses. He was on Ink Masters too recently.
Speaker 3:right, Right, right, right I think I actually recently just watched that one Like what do I think?
Speaker 2:as far as like him, did he create it.
Speaker 3:I don't know if I hell. No, he didn't he might have brought it to like a forefront yeah he might have brought it like more, to like the forefront for people to view it and see it, because he did have the ink master platform you know what? I mean, but I wouldn't say that he was the creator of that I've been getting black traditional since the beginning of time exactly. Period, exactly so to like.
Speaker 2:It's what 2024 yeah, you know what I mean, yeah and to say you created anything really in art is a bold fucking statement very much so yeah, you know what I'm saying, and his work is dope oh, it's dope, it's dope, don't get me wrong it's dope.
Speaker 3:I think I actually follow him on instagram, right, so his work is dope, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 2:But there's also another black dude in atlanta that's shitting on you, brother. Really, oh my gosh, there's this dude. I forget his name.
Speaker 3:I will, I will I'll find it and send it to you for sure but you know both, I have respect for both of you guys. Both of you guys are really doing yeah, good work, but you did not create that shit, sorry, yeah, saying you created anything in the in the art realm is a very is a very bold, bold statement, I think yep, it's traditional to make. I would never fucking say I created that how did?
Speaker 1:how did you get out of the first shop, though, after after all that mess?
Speaker 3:um, so the the first shop with like, the like, just kind of just being well that was the second shop. Okay, that was the second shop that I worked at. Um like the first shop. I you know I ended up leaving just because I was like dude I'm. I can tell that I'm being treated differently now and I'm over this fucking bullshit.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, like, and since then, like I do talk to my mentor now. Still, you know what I mean. Like we've reconciled and stuff like that. Um, so I fucking love the guy, like I'm totally grateful for the opportunity that he gave me. He's a fucking dope ass, fucking tattoo artist too. Um, and I had a great. That was a great opportunity for me. You know what I mean. But once I started being treated differently because of being a woman, it was like all right, it's time, might be time to go. You know what I mean. Um, but the second shop um, I worked there because a buddy of mine worked there and I was like hey, like I'm looking for a new spot. He was like, oh, we're actually looking for artists.
Speaker 4:Like, come through and like I said, it was all good for a while, until it wasn't you know?
Speaker 3:and then it was just like one day I was like, because people are like bro, you need to leave, like you need to leave, like even my brother was like bro, I'm about to come up there and crack some heads, because the way these dudes are treating you like it's, it's absolutely ridiculous. So I, straight up one day, just when I knew that most of the guys who were a problem were going to be there, I went.
Speaker 3:I took my mom's boyfriend came with me. He brought one of his homies in case some shit popped off. They came with me and I just fucking got all my shit and I fucking left and the two guys who were in there who I was cool with. They were like are you moving stations? I was like no, I'm fucking gonna get out of. Was like no, I'm fucking getting the fuck out of here.
Speaker 3:Like nah, bro, I'm moving shops and they were like oh damn really. And I was like don't act like y'all are surprised, like cause, like us three were probably treated like the most shit, but notices it and starts looking at you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had one incident. Can you do that too? That's crazy.
Speaker 2:The owner came in and he he berated the tattoo yeah. It was what the individual asked for, you know, and the tattoo is shit from the beginning, so there wasn't much I could do about it. He just wanted red in a fucking clown. So, I put red in the fucking clown. It was shitty, like I did what he asked. Exactly the one who comes down. Obviously this is not my best work, but I didn't fucking tattoo it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just put red in it.
Speaker 2:He's like oh, and the guy, he's like brandon, he called me after. He's like b, like, why are you still there? Yeah he's a white dude. Yeah, you know what I mean. I was like bro, like there's not a lot of options out here for me and this is california. You just can't stop and be like, oh fuck this job I'm leaving, I'm good.
Speaker 1:I got three fucking kids you know what I mean like.
Speaker 2:So they gotta eat first and foremost, and then my little feelings will come after that exactly. You know what I mean, because I got a fucking job to do yeah so you know a lot of people ask why black tattoo artists stay in you know harsh environments.
Speaker 3:It's a fucking job and we need to like nobody wants to continue to move, to move, to move to move, to move traditional unemployment, like people do, because we're independent contractors, so it's like we don't you know, we don't have 401ks to fall back on. We don't have. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:we don't work, we don't get paid and it's just like a musician, like being in a shop practicing tattooing. If you stay away from tattooing too long, you will lose it. Oh for sure.
Speaker 3:You will lose it For sure.
Speaker 2:That's the reason we stay in environments that are a little bit harsh, which we know it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we fucking know it.
Speaker 2:And we just but that's something that we've been dealing with our whole lives exactly adversity right and being seen as something different. Yeah, when you know there is absolutely nothing fucking different you know what I mean, but it's just like okay, like this guy's a fucking asshole you know what I mean and we just all right, I'm not gonna talk to you about certain things and that's how, like, I can't talk to you about this, yeah you know why?
Speaker 2:because I'm gonna end up cussing you out if I hear your response to it, so let's not talk about this or the fact that when you're black in a shop, we're not the ones that cause the havoc on the black shit they bring it up to us they'll come to your booth and be like do you see what the black people are doing on the bridge? And be like do you agree with that? What's your intel on that? Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 4:That's crazy.
Speaker 3:And it's too like you become almost like the speaker for all black people, right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:But you don't want to be, because they don't fucking get it anyways.
Speaker 3:And that's the thing it's. Like you know, I try to tell people all the time like, first of all, black people are not a monolith and one black person can't speak for all of us.
Speaker 4:Period.
Speaker 3:So it's like when people come up to you and be like oh, and be like oh, hey, you know, as a black, I'm not trying to be racist, but as a black person, how?
Speaker 4:do you feel?
Speaker 3:about. I'm like bro, just shut the fuck up you already know what's going down if you have to preface it with I'm not racist, but you're about to be all kinds of racist that's what I found frustrating was people looking for understanding through me and then arguing, wanting to argue about your answer?
Speaker 2:you fucking asked me exactly just take the answer and go shut the fuck up exactly I stopped answering questions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I stopped teaching, it's not our job to educate and I say this, you know, as a black woman who tends to date mostly white men because that's what I'm attracted to it's fucking hard because I'm constantly having to be looked at as the educator of black oppression, black plight, black issue. You know black problems in this country and it's like, again, they'll ask you about some shit, but when you tell them that your experience, well, I don't think it's that hard. Are you black? Why did you ask me then? What was the point when you tell them that your experience, well, I don't think it's that hard. Are you black?
Speaker 3:Why did you ask me then?
Speaker 2:What was?
Speaker 3:the point of you asking me if you didn't really want to understand my experience. You know what.
Speaker 2:I mean Take it at core value.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like you can't, you don't, you're not allowed to tell somebody what they've been through and how they feel about certain things that affect them and don't affect you. You know what I mean. So it's like it's very hard because, as much as we want people to understand, it's not our job to educate. Like, bro, go read a book, go on the internet, look up some shit, watch a video, go watch 13th on Netflix, and that's what I tell a lot of people go watch 13th on Netflix. Then come back to me and have a conversation because it's like a lot of people don't really want to understand and want to learn. They just want to like kind of interject their opinion and be like well, I think it doesn't matter what you think. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:How did Trump's office influence your tattooing when, within those years, I was angry.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. I was very angry. I definitely lost clients, for sure. I lost friends, for sure. Um, and I became a little bit more strict with the kind of people that I tattooed, and that's also why I'm so vocal on my social media platforms about what my political beliefs are, because I'm sorry, sorry, I don't want to tattoo a Trump supporter, like I don't want to tattoo somebody whose beliefs and values and the way they vote are threatening to me as a person and to me, to the people that I love. You know what I mean. And I get a lot of people that ask me like, oh, you can't be friends with everybody, isn't that kind of like? You know, you're being like the people who you talk about. And I'm like, nah, bro, like I say this all the time, especially because, for some reason, I get a lot of conservative Christian white men that want to date me and I'm like I remember you saying that before too it's almost like a fetish.
Speaker 4:Maybe that's it. I don't know what y'all saying she might burn some shit, yeah.
Speaker 2:You're not saying I wasn't saving you. She's not the one for saving y'all.
Speaker 1:I'm not the one for saving If you can't tell by the decor in here.
Speaker 3:I'm not the one for saving. But I do think it's a fetishization that a lot of, whether it be me being tattooed, heavily tattooed and pierced, because everybody's like, oh, she a freaky bitch, she tatted and pierced, she freaky Um. Or me being a black woman, being a black alt woman, you know what I mean. It's like oh, I had that before. Let me go over here and taste the rainbow real quick. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Um, and black women are hyper-sexualized already. Anyway. You know what I mean, and I don't. I don't explain to me.
Speaker 3:Oh, I mean, you see, like how we're viewed, like just our bodies, like we tend to be a little bit curvier, and that's already like. I remember there was a black teacher I forgot what state it was in, but she's, she got a tiny waist, fat booty, big titties. And she was literally wearing a turtleneck and some jeans and they were like that's inappropriate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because of the way her body looks.
Speaker 3:I seen that face If there was some skinny.
Speaker 2:No booty, Becky. She was breaking the law with that body.
Speaker 1:I'll tell you what. She was fine as hell. She needed to be arrested. She was fine as hell, yeah, but it's like Get away from them, kids.
Speaker 2:That was dangerous on purpose, that's.
Speaker 3:That's the kind of thing, that is, your children with that body, yeah, but it's like if another woman who didn't have body it was white were the same thing, nobody would say anything to her. So it's like our body, everything about us, is automatically like fetishized and hyper sexualized because of what people see on BET and what people see in rap videos and what you know, just because we happen to be more curvaceous, like there are things that, like I automatically know I can't wear because I got big titties, because if a woman who had less chest than me wore it, oh my god, that's so cute, but if I wear it, that's really slutty, that's very slutty. You should go change just because my body parts are a little bit bigger you know what I mean, like even wearing this.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I'm covered up, but you can still see you know, like you can still see the shape right right, right right you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So, um, I think that it's. It's that fetishization, I think it's that, you know, taking something off the list, because a lot of white men will be like, oh, I've never dated a black chick before, I've never fucked a black chick before, and I'm like, well, you're not about to now, because you just said that stupid shit you might have had a chance.
Speaker 2:You just closed your mouth, but there it is you know, or that you're hot for a black chick.
Speaker 4:I don't usually like black chicks, but you're hot for a black chick. I don't usually like black chicks, but you're hot for a black chick and I'm like bro, that's not a compliment that's offensive.
Speaker 3:I had an uber driver straight up telling me I got in the uber and he was older white man. You're, you're very pretty and I'm like, oh, thank you, I appreciate that. No, you're like very gorgeous.
Speaker 3:I'm like, oh, thank you, I really appreciate that, sir and I'm like waiting for him to like take me to my destination, and he's like so what's your, what's your nationality? I said American and he was like well, you know what I mean? I said well, no, because I answered the question that you asked me, but I'm assuming that you mean what's your ethnicity well, yeah that I'm black. Well, what are you mixed with? Black, well, but but no. What are you mixed with? Like one of your parents is white, right, sir? Nobody in my family is white.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I mean, you look exotic. I'm like there's that other word. And I'm just like I'm black, sir, Like nobody in my family is white Like I'm black on black on black, Like, and he's like well, you have to be mixed with white because you're so pretty, come on.
Speaker 2:I said with white, because you're so pretty, come on. I said, come on, the way that you're getting a one star review after you drop me off. And no, no tip, no tip.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like what are some of the things that you've done in your career to get around some of the roadblocks that you face. Um, I just have a very I definitely have a very masculine energy about me. Okay, so I tend to be like on some no bullshit, fuck you, I don't care, like type shit, like you're not gonna tell me I can't do something. Um, and I've always been like that. You know what I mean. Granted, I have been kind of a people pleaser throughout parts of my life because I didn't want to rock the boat in some instances. But being in the tattoo industry, like, you really have to develop a fucking tough skin. You have to, especially being a woman and especially being black. You've got to develop a fucking hundred times tougher of a skin being in a white, male, straight dominated industry. You know what I mean because, like you said earlier, people don't want me there anyway in the first place.
Speaker 3:so now I've got to prove myself to be 10 times better than most of the people that I'm tattooing around and I've got to have a tough skin to let them know you're not going to get to me Like I can take anything that you can throw at me and I'm going to dish it out back to you Like. One of my favorite pastimes is like offending the fuck out of like men in the industry that I've worked with, or like even just like men that come at me a certain way and expect me to just take it.
Speaker 3:I'm like oh, I'm about to make you cry, bro like, you know what I mean and I said like some vicious ass shit to people and people are like, oh, did you have to take it that far? I'm like so you don't think they took it too far when they came up at me crazy like when I was on Ink Master Redemption and this dude is literally screaming in my face, yelling at me, talking all kinds of shit, but as soon as I pop off back at him and tell him to shut the fuck up now everybody's got a problem right you know what I mean it's like well, black anger is different now I'm an angry black woman, right, you know what I mean, black woman.
Speaker 2:You guys better watch out, she's raising her fucking voice. Everybody watch out she's getting past.
Speaker 3:She, she's yelling.
Speaker 2:Fucking A you guys better, run you better run for your lives, man.
Speaker 3:She might bust a cat, be your ass.
Speaker 1:So would you say you were always playing that offensive, defensive line, or would you ever be more defensive? Keep your mouth shut before you take somebody out, or how has that gotten to where you're at now?
Speaker 3:So I'm very professional, first and foremost.
Speaker 4:First and foremost, I'm always professional.
Speaker 3:Um so, yeah, so in certain spaces, yes, I would stay a little bit quiet at first, like, say, if I just started at a shop because I don't want to rock the boat, because I need a job, you know what I mean. So, but in the beginning, it's like I said it's always usually chill in the beginning, it's always good, and then people's everybody starts getting comfortable with each other and there's always shit talking, banter in shops.
Speaker 3:That's just part of tattoo culture. There's always this banter, but then people take it too far. Then it becomes malicious, then it becomes you're actually trying to cut me down, you're trying to hurt my feelings. It's not just a fun funny ha ha, let's Josh back and forth, kind of thing. So once it starts to get to that point, you know I would start to stand up for myself more like, and I would start coming back with the like, really offensive. You know responses, and then I'd leave. You know what I mean, and I would just leave because I'm like I don't want this environment that I'm supposed to be creating in to, to, to be toxic, because then that stifles your creativity. You know, then I'm not giving clients my best work. I'm not giving clients my best me. I'm not giving clients my best energy and my best attitude because my environment's fucked up.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying. So at a point you really got to just be like all right, I got to make my exit strategy.
Speaker 3:You know, what I mean. But now, since I work by myself, like the last shop I worked at was was awesome. It was a buddy of mine who owned the shop and he had been trying to get me to come work at the shop for a while. But the shop that was treating me like shit. I was like, well, I don't want to be disloyal. And then they started treating me like we're shit. So I was like, okay, fuck this, I'm out, you know. So the last shop I was, I was there for seven years. Awesome, you know. We were like fucking like family for real, for real. Um, great group of guys. You know what I mean? Um, and I never had to be like, well, fuck these fools.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. Like I never had that, that that feeling.
Speaker 3:And then when I left, it was to come here and start my own shop, you know. So it wasn't on no bad blood type shit, it wasn't on no. Oh my god, I fucking hate this place.
Speaker 2:I need to get out, so you found a good piece of yeah, exactly uh, space where you can feel comfortable exactly, yeah I had to create my own yeah I had to create my own and sometimes that's what it takes is creating your own space and getting out of the typical tattoo environment.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. Now, do I miss having other you know coworkers to like go back and forth with sometimes or like to talk to or whatever.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I do miss that like camaraderie, a little bit but being just in here by myself with, like me and my client most of the time, like he'll tell you, like the vibe is just like so much more chill. It's so much more calm. Calm, like we can talk about whatever without worrying if someone's gonna fucking say some stupid shit or like, oh, that's fucking gay. Like you know what I mean. Like we can watch whatever we want on tv. Like we can. You know what I mean. We're free to be ourselves. We don't have to water ourselves down. Um, it's just, it's relaxing. Relaxing. You know, I offer snacks, I got snacks. I got drinks.
Speaker 3:I got you know what I mean. Um, I w I've. I wanted this to be a nurturing and calm, chill environment for me and my clients. You know, I wanted this to be like an extension of my living room, essentially. You know, and people are like dude, this is like so much different than any tattoo experience I've had vibe and that's what I wanted yeah you know like it's it's not the typical tattoo shop, vibe like it literally feels like you're getting tattooed in my living you can walk the roscos from here I, I still haven't been over there, I know take my black card.
Speaker 2:Take my black card black card.
Speaker 3:Black card yeah, we can edit that out. I still ain't been to that restaurant.
Speaker 1:I will say so. Along with the happiness that you've created here, you're also kind of a philanthropist in in the in the outside world. Yeah, you, you take groceries to, to those less less fortunate, right, yeah, so.
Speaker 3:I work with the non. I work with two nonprofit organizations. The one that Zach's talking about is it's called the Long Beach Community Table and it's a food rescue, so they take food that would like otherwise be like thrown out or discarded, and we rehome the groceries for people who are low income, who are on government assistance, usually older people. So there's the warehouse and everybody gets the groceries ready for the people who have signed up for the program and I go and I pick the groceries up and I go deliver them to like my little regulars, so, and I like it because they're actually in my neighborhood Like. So it's like you know, I'm part of the community that I'm delivering in Um, and it's nice to just see these people every day and they're so grateful and thankful.
Speaker 3:And I have one guy, his name's Teddy, and I've had to make him my last stop on my route now Cause he loves to just chat, um, and he's like an older gentleman, he's like he's like 67 or something, um, and he just loves to chat. So we'll just chat, we'll talk about politics, we'll talk about whatever. You know he's going through as this little cat and I always play with this little cat like, and the cat loves to see me and, um, you know, if there's, uh, sometimes we have, um, you know, people on our list that might move and not notify the organization, so I'll be left with an extra bag of groceries. So usually I groceries, so usually I'll come here to the shop and like divvy it up in like two or three bags and then I'll just go and give it to like some of the like unhoused people on the street. Um, so I I love doing that you said unhoused you know, we've tried to graduate from homeless yeah
Speaker 3:go ahead. I feel like I didn't catch myself more often I catch myself too, still um, but I think unhoused just kind of gives people a little bit more dignity. You know what I mean, because I think that people on the street do deserve to have some kind of dignity and be treated like they're also people. It depends on if you're shitting on things. I mean, you know there are people that shit on things sometimes I mean there?
Speaker 3:was a guy here who wiped his blood all over the front of my shop one time. And I mean there was a guy here who wiped his blood all over the front of my shop one time. That's a real horror scene and it looked like a murder scene. But I was more concerned with is he okay? Because I can clean that up and I can paint over it? You know what I mean. So it's not.
Speaker 3:So you got a good heart. Yeah, Like I'm very empathetic Because that could be me. You know what I mean, Especially because mental health issues and as someone who has dealt with mental health issues, that could have been me you know what I mean. That could be me at any time. You know what I mean and I think that people forget that, especially in in an economic situation like we have in this country now, bro, so many people are one paycheck away from being homeless. So you got to think about if I was in this situation, how would I want people to treat me. You know what I mean and it's nothing to be kind to people. It doesn't fucking cost you anything. Facts, you know what I mean. Like people walk through this world just being fucking assholes and dicks. Our industry is a perfect example. Tattoo artists literally have reputations for being fucking assholes, and most of them are.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's just like you've got these like old school tattooers that are just like anger is their personality. Oh fuck this, these pussy ass motherfuckers. Like you know what I'm like. I was on Instagram the other day and somebody had made like a funny reel or whatever and it was like how people used to tattoo and it's like some dudes in a warehouse and one dude's got no gloves on and he's just like packing ink recklessly into this guy who's like on a freaking wood bench, like you know, with no shirt on, and then it pans to tattoo shops now and it's like someone sitting in like a tats old chair with a blanket and like noise canceling headphones and snacks.
Speaker 3:And the tattoo artist is like massaging their arm, and then there's like all these and it clearly it's supposed to be funny, right?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You go to the comment section. All these pissed off ass tattoo shops have become fucking yoga studios.
Speaker 2:This is gay and I'm like cause forbid.
Speaker 3:We want our clients and ourselves to be comfortable right.
Speaker 2:Right Evolution.
Speaker 3:Like evolution. Like y'all are mad at comfort, yeah, like how are? You pissed off at comfort. It's like the same old school tattoo artists that are mad, that like artists are like wrapping the fuck out of our machines and sensi wrap so so it's comfortable like all right, bro.
Speaker 3:Like have fun with that carpal tunnel arthritis. Like you know what I mean. Like how are you mad at the evolution of an industry that is helping not only the client but the artist too? You know what I'm saying. Like it's like people just want to treat their clients like shit. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's a reputation, that there's an ego. It's very ego based.
Speaker 3:It's very ego based, and it's like you know people think, oh, I got to treat people like shit in order to be seen as manly. Right, you know? And that is the exact opposite of what, to me, being a man is. You know, being masculine to me, in my eyes, is being somebody who's a protector, somebody who's compassionate, somebody who's empathetic, somebody who can be vulnerable at times and somebody who can be a part of their community instead of be a nuisance to their community.
Speaker 2:That's why it's so hard to rent and open up places and all of that is that attitude that follows us. You know that's not the majority of tattoo shops anymore. It's not. It is no longer that attitude and that's amazing to see it is.
Speaker 3:It's so good to see because tattooing is such a beautiful art form. You know what I mean, and I tell people all the time that the relationship between an artist and a client is very intimate because this person is trusting you to put something on their body for the rest of their life. They're trusting you to do it safely and they're trusting you to like, take care of them in a little way.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:And it's like and they're paying you, so why would you not want to treat them well?
Speaker 2:Right, you know. So it's like A lot of money too, like we're not cheap. Yeah, so it's like, yeah, you're going to treat you nicely, exactly, I'll probably even buy you lunch if you need lunch. Yeah, you know like.
Speaker 3:Like I'm always like hey, you want Postmates, hey, I got. You know. I provide snacks to all my clients. I give all of my first time clients little goodie bag, aftercare bags to take home with them, you know, with like an aftercare card, some candy, some stickers, like whatever.
Speaker 2:And that's why artists older artists are pissed a little bit too, because they're losing clients and they're no longer able to. You know, tattoo in the same fashion they were because they have old practices, you know they refuse to change with the time evolve.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they refuse to evolve. That's going to get you left behind real fucking quick in a very ever evolving industry. Like bro, like even me being tattooing for 16 years. Tattooing is wildly different than what it was when I first started. You know what I mean. Wildly different in a number of ways, and you can either roll with that evolution and take it as it comes at you and learn to adapt, or you can be stuck in your old ways and get left the fuck behind and then now you're pissed off at everybody but yourself.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's pretty much in the industry now.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because technology is just advancing so fast. Oh yeah, if you're stuck in your old ways, you're going to get left behind.
Speaker 3:You're going to get left behind. As simple as that, yeah.
Speaker 1:You're working on a book as well.
Speaker 3:So I'm in the very, very, very beginning stages of writing the book, cause I'm not sure which way I want to go with it.
Speaker 1:We'll start the promotion now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hopefully it snowballs.
Speaker 3:I have a couple of books that I'm wanting to work on. One is from the perspective, and I have a few titles that I've like thrown out there, um. One is going to be obviously about my sober journey, um, and then how my getting sober led to my current success. Um, I also want to do one on becoming less easily digestible for men as a woman and discontinuing the people pleaser phase of my life and learning to just be who I am, say what I want, and the people who are for me will find me.
Speaker 3:But, especially given the dynamics between men and women these days and how patriarchy is really starting to be looked at as like, okay, this might actually be a problem. You know what I mean, because it's very oppressive. You know we're seeing that with the overturning of roe v wade, women are literally fighting for the autonomy to our own bodies. We're literally fighting to be able to make medical decisions with our own bodies, and now the conservative party is talking about just coming for contraception all together like bitches, y'all having babies like you know what I?
Speaker 3:mean, and it's like and now women are like, okay, well, we're just not gonna fuck y'all. And now men are upset like it's like y'all are gonna have to give us something more y'all stopped.
Speaker 2:They started doing that a long time ago. Stop fucking us. Yeah, just you know.
Speaker 3:And I mean because it's like at what point do you keep stop settling?
Speaker 4:You know what I mean as a woman you know, I've stopped dating because I'm just like, bro, I'm done with this.
Speaker 3:It's a fucking shit show out there. It's a shit show. Like it's like pulling teeth, asking for someone to be like accountable for their actions, to not be a creepy perv and to like have some kind of emotional intelligence and like be doing something you know what I mean it's like you gold digging bitch like well, you ain't got no gold baby.
Speaker 3:So what you talking about like what you have no gold to dig but like for me as a very independent, self-made woman, that's intimidating to a lot of men and the fact that like I'm a no bullshit kind of woman and I'm not going to take your shit, I'm not gonna put up with bullshit, I'm not settling like, that's intimidating because you can't control me. I'm not a woman that can be controlled. You can't knock me down a few pegs to deal with your bullshit and I'm not easily and this is I see the feminist side that rearing.
Speaker 2:When do you?
Speaker 3:do you follow your man?
Speaker 2:do you allow him to lead? If you're married, do you allow your spouse to lead? Is there?
Speaker 3:if they're capable.
Speaker 2:Is that he's capable?
Speaker 4:because you married him right right.
Speaker 3:I don't want to get married personally. Is that?
Speaker 2:a classic standard of marriage.
Speaker 3:Does that work for you in your I don't want to get married, so I don't really have a viewpoint on that. I would love to have a long-term partner. I guess I should preface this by saying I've been single for 15 years. I've dated, but I've only had one serious boyfriend and that was about 15, 16 years ago and it one like serious boyfriend and that was about 15 16 years ago um, and it's partly because I refuse to settle because I know my worth, and I hear that shit a lot.
Speaker 2:Though I hear that shit a lot, I refuse to settle y'all better start fucking settling a little bit, because because you know what?
Speaker 3:I can provide everything that I need for myself in my life, why would I settle for some ain't shit, buster, ass, fucking dude? That's only going to come make my life ten times harder than be at peace where I am now, because my thing is people look at me so bad because y'all got to take accountability but men have been able to get by.
Speaker 3:This is my thing. Men have been able to get by on the bare minimum for so long. And in the past women did need men because we couldn't even fucking have credit cards till 1974. We couldn't have our own bank accounts, we couldn't own a house, we couldn't have jobs. So we, we needed the man to be a protector and provider. Go 50, 50 with a bitch and still, but it's not truly 50. 50 because they want you to have a job, but then they want you to go home and take care of kids, they want you to suck their dick, they want you to do the dishes, clean the house, make you dinner, and then they just go to work and come home and just are receiving princess treatment essentially. So that's not 50, 50 baby, that's 80 20 I will say too, that is a bad trend.
Speaker 1:I do see, uh, just in general, um guys wanting to be protected and provided for yeah which we know we aren't. That's why I think, that's why this is kind of news to you, because, yeah, because you know you're not that kind of guy, because you're married, right yeah, oh, damn near, yeah, working on it, yeah, yeah so it's like that's. I think that's why this is a big surprise. They're not big surprise to me.
Speaker 3:I see it, yeah so dating has become women. Since you know, we're CEOs, now we're business owners. We, we bad bitches out here.
Speaker 3:You know, I can provide for myself and I can do everything for myself, so I don't need a man for anything. So if you cannot rise to the occasion and meet my standards, you can stay over there, because I don't need you. I would love a long-term partner. You know who doesn't want love in their life. You know I would love to find that. But I have cultivated such a peaceful life for myself and the life that I have built for myself and the woman that I have become. I am very protective of her and I refuse to let a man come into my life and dismantle all of that because heartbreak is too risky. The risk to reward is very much not equal, because I have dated people who will come into my life and try to change me or try to knock me down a few pegs, like, oh, this bitch thinks she up here, let me knock her down a few pegs. Honey, I'm not. I'm not that one. You better go fuck around with somebody else right you know, um, because I love my life.
Speaker 3:people have this misconception that women who are over 30 and single are miserable as fuck. And we over here, sliding down the wall, crying, throwing a oh my god, I don't have a man, nobody want to be with me, I don't give a damn, I don't give a damn, I don't give a damn. I and people will be. Oh, you're going to be a lonely cat lady and you're going to die alone. Bro, I got two cats, I am a cat lady and I love my little children, my little fur children.
Speaker 1:But I'm not.
Speaker 3:I love. I love my cat babies, but I'm not afraid to be alone. You know what?
Speaker 2:I have a community, but it sounds a little bit like you're afraid to be led as well. No Part of being a man is taking your lady and leading and protecting your family and creating security. Yeah, and it's not necessarily about a financial 50 50. Yeah, it's a mental state.
Speaker 4:And that's the thing A lot of men don't have money and I don't want it to be like, hey, like, you're defined by your money, which men often are defined by their money, and that's not right.
Speaker 2:Women.
Speaker 3:Men did, because men have always led with their money, because historically men have been protectors and providers and they were the breadwinners. Because, again, women couldn't work.
Speaker 2:The reason I say men is because if I go to Zach and I say oh, I'm a tattoo artist.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He doesn't give a fuck about what, how little or how much I'm making. We're either friends or we're not. But if I were to go to a woman and say, hey, yeah, I ain't gonna fucking job, you know what I?
Speaker 3:mean, why would you expect a woman to set if you don't have a job? And I got a job and I got stuff going for me and I'm providing for myself, so I'm supposed to take you on as a child, essentially because you don't have a job?
Speaker 2:no, because you know, I think the problem is, is that finances and all these other things, let me say that also your priorities are fucked up. A broke man don't deserve love I'm not saying that but a homeless man don't?
Speaker 3:I'm not saying that, but I'm saying your priorities because when I'm not on my shit, the last thing I'm thinking about is trying to go out here and date somebody. I need to be focused on myself and getting myself right before I can go out there and try to date and give anything to anybody, because I'm not good over here if you don't have a job and you can't pay your bills. Your last focus should be dating. You should not be focused on other people.
Speaker 2:That's fucked up. It's because that's a societal rule now, because you have to have somebody who contributes to your circle, to your financial success, because everything's so fucking expensive out here Unless you got it all on your own.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I disagree with that. I feel like men are always looking at as uh a finance. Nobody ever wants to take dated broke man, even if he is the best man yeah and that's the fucking problem is that you know, even if it's fucking denzel washington, but he ain't got the movies, he ain't shit. And I think that's like my problem with some of the feminist views a little bit is that they're so harsh towards us. But we were here specifically and raised by our fathers to be providers yeah you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:And then over the years you know, under this big umbrella of fuck shit, you know all of the men and you know you got some that are having babies and you got some that are dissing women. But you also have some that are actually doing it right, yeah, but those aren't the ones that ever get talked about.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Those aren't the ones that anybody appreciates, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I guess my question is is how do you want to be looked at? How does a feminist, somebody who doesn't need a man, yeah. Who's got all the things that they want. How does a man woo you? Yeah, what's?
Speaker 1:that? What's that blueprint for any of the listeners that watches out there?
Speaker 3:For me, I need a man who is emotionally intelligent. I need a man who's in touch with his emotions and his feelings. I don't like it when a man's like oh, I'm a man, I don't have emotions except anger and I can't talk about my feelings, because feelings are gay like that. You miss me with that bullshit, bro. You're a fucking grown-ass man at your big-ass age.
Speaker 3:You got to come out with that bullshit. Um. So I need someone who I feel safe around, like safe, you know what I mean safe to be vulnerable, safe to be open, safe to be led. You know what I mean. You have to prove to me that you can lead me somewhere, because I can already lead myself. But if you claim to lead me, where are we going? You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:You can't just say a leader and then not back that up with leader qualities, cause a lot of men want to say they can lead and then they let you down by proving that they can't lead, because sometimes they can't lead themselves and that's not to say all men by any stretch of the imagination. But I need to feel safe. I need to feel taken care of emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually, sexually. You know I need to feel like you've got my back. You know what I mean In certain situations, like we're in this together, like I need to feel that you want to be a partner, not just you want a woman because, anybody can say, oh, I want a girlfriend, I want a wife.
Speaker 3:Do you want to be a partner? This is a partnership. You know what I mean, Um, and I tell people all the time. People are like well, maybe you're too picky. I said no. First of all, I have standards, but my standards are high for other people because they're high for me. Everything that I have on my list of standards for a man is because I have those same things on the standard list for myself. So I'm not asking in anything from a partner that I don't require of myself and that I'm not willing to offer a partner because it goes both ways.
Speaker 3:Anything that I want out of a partner is because I want to also give that to my partner. You know what I mean. Like I'm a very nurturing and loving person. Like, if I'm dating somebody, I love to cook for them. If I see something while I'm out that like, oh, they would like that. Like I love to purchase it for them, Cause I think men deserve gifts too. You know what I mean. Like I think men deserve flowers. Like you know, um, I think men deserve to be treated as well. You know what I mean, Not to just be the giver all the time and I love to give, but I would also like to receive, because a lot of the times when I've dated I feel like I just give and give and give and it's not being reciprocated.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I will say something clicked when she was explaining that a lot of the things she said what we talked about in our last episode. So shameless plug to our last episode that just launched today with Brian Foster we were explaining what a true alpha was.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, we believe a true alpha was so sitting there with three seasoned men, and a lot of the things you listed were just that. Yeah, so tap, tap into that If you guys haven't listened to that episode yet but yeah, it sounds, sounds like that's.
Speaker 3:It sounds like that's what you're wanting. And a lot of women will tell you the same thing, like, yes, it's good to have a man who, like, is financially stable and not and and this is what I say too because people are like, oh, you want a man who has money, because you're a gold digger, maybe I don't need any of your money. It's not because I want your money, it's because I'm, you know. You know I make six figures, so I do very well for myself.
Speaker 3:So with a certain tax bracket comes a certain lifestyle. I want to have a partner that I can share in that lifestyle with. You know what I mean. I'm not saying you got to make exactly six figures like I do, but if I want to go traveling and you can't go because you are not financially stable, I'm still going to go on that trip because I want to do that. If I want to go to a nice steakhouse on a Tuesday for no reason and you can't go because your finances are not in order, I still want to go. You know what I mean. So I want to be able to be able to enjoy certain things with my partner that we can share in, because we're both at a stable point in our life.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:It's not about oh, I'm trying. I want to take this motherfucking money like you know, take it and run um, because I have my own, you know, I don't need yours, you know, because I I do well for myself. Um, but I want to be able to, you know, be on like kind of a level playing field with my partner, because I want somebody who we can both come in as our best selves and then build something even greater on top of that you know what I mean
Speaker 3:like build on some and build an empire type shit. You know what I mean? Um, so it's not just about finance, it's about the mental, it's about the physical, it's about the spiritual, it's about the you know, do I feel safe with you, you know? And I I haven't really felt typically safe around a lot of men and I've told Zach this a million times, like cause we dated for five minutes before. That's actually how we met.
Speaker 4:We met on hinge, oh, oh that was wrong, but we met on.
Speaker 3:we did meet on hinge like what, like 2020 or something, um. And then he essentially told me in a very nice way you drink too much bitch.
Speaker 1:And then he essentially told me in a very nice way you drink too much bitch. Oh shit, you want to know exactly what I said. I said I just can't keep up with your lifestyle. Yeah, and that's exactly what he said.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very well, said, that's exactly what he said and I was like you know, I totally respect that. Then we just went our separate ways, you know. And then, after I got sober and created the shop Instagram you like, stumbled upon it. You were like shit.
Speaker 1:I was like I remember this person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was looking at her artwork, yeah, and then he was like hey, do you want to work on a project for me? And I was like dude, fuck, yeah, you know what I mean. Um, and then you know we tried to a few times to you know what I mean? Like zach is a fucking awesome dude like. He's an amazing guy and I appreciate that.
Speaker 3:I tell him this all the fucking time I'm like. You are literally one of the only fucking men that I feel truly safe with, safe besides my brother. Truly safe around, truly like, like. You're just a good man. You know what I?
Speaker 3:mean, and I tell him that all the time like you are a good man. You know what I mean, Um, and that's what I, you know, that's what I'm looking for. Somebody who can make me feel like that, you know what I, somebody who's just I. I just know deep down this is a good man, Like this is a good man like all the way around, all encompassing. A good man who's not going to fuck you around, who's not going to fuck you over, who's not going to be manipulative, who's not going to be trying to get one over on you, who's not going to be I'm just get some coochies on this bitch and I'm out. You know what I mean Like a good, solid man, and that is kind of hard to find these days.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying that they're not out there, but, um, it's hard, especially, you know, going back to like being a woman who's so, who's got her own, is independent and might be intimidating to a lot of men, Cause I've had guy friends tell me like you're kind of intimidating bitch. You know what I mean. Um, it's hard to find a man who is okay with who I am as a person, as a woman, who can provide for herself and who will speak up for herself and who doesn't take bullshit. It's hard to find someone who has those qualities that you're mutually attracted to. That's going to let you be you. You know what I mean, Um, so you know. I took a little time. If love is not a part of my uh path, this go around in life, then that might be something that I have to accept.
Speaker 3:And I've got to be happy with my life the way it is, because what if this is it? You know, what if this is how my life is going to be? What?
Speaker 2:if I am single for the rest of my life? What if it ends tomorrow? Yeah, what if I get hit?
Speaker 3:by a fucking bus, knock on wood, hope that don't happen. But you know I've got to be happy with where I'm at in life now, with who I am as a person now, with the love that I experience from my community, from my friends, from my family, from my clients.
Speaker 3:You know, sometimes romantic love might not be on the agenda, you know, and I've got to come to terms with that and I really have come to terms with that in the last year. I got back into dating last year after being celibate for like a year and a half um working on my sober journey and my spiritual journey, and um, it wasn't horrible, you know um, the people that I dated were good people, um, we just weren't aligned for whatever reason, um, you know, whether it was they wanted kids and I don't want kids, um, or we had political differences, um, but it was wildly different kids and I don't want kids, um, or we had political differences, um, but it was wildly different than the people that I dated pre-sobriety, you know, um, it was just a different type of maturity you know, um, but it's hard to find, even find people that I want to go on a date with, you know, because a lot of these men will just be saying outrageous shit.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, especially on dating sites, you know. You'll just have, you'll be like damn you, fine as hell, like I'm trying to hit and I'm just like where's your mother, do you?
Speaker 2:do you get people in here specifically to try and sleep with you? In the shop yeah, to get a tattoo just to try and fucking?
Speaker 1:or is that not so much anymore, since you?
Speaker 3:not so much anymore, like I used to have clients that would hit on me like incessantly all the time and then I'm like, okay, like I've had to drop a few clients because they would make me uncomfortable. Um, but I don't get that anymore, I think because people realize like I'm not to be fucked with, so they don't even try finally get finally cleared you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like I'm not even go because I'm clicked, yeah, you know what I mean. Like, oh, I'm not even going Because I'm at work, bro, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Well, it doesn't seem like it would be an easy route if it was no. It's not just going to be no, it's going to be no and something you know clever wrapped around it Usually.
Speaker 3:But I don't. I'm not like rude to men, advances I, to be honest with you. I usually just say I have a boyfriend. Because if you say anything else, then it's like well, why? Well, how come? Well, why am I ugly, well, what's?
Speaker 2:and it's like, bro, like I'm just not interested, huh no man, I've always done that really, yeah, okay, I've always done that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I always like if people get all pissed off and they get denied by it like all of a sudden, you're a fat bitch that's wild, it's like damn I wasn't a fat bitch before, but okay, you know what I mean yeah, it's like sucks for you, because you got denied by a fat bitch um double whammy. Okay, yeah, you got denied, and it was by a fat bitch oh shit buddy.
Speaker 3:You better get it together, but yeah, it's rough man and it's funny because people are always like, well, and it's usually men, uh, I'll be out, like you're on a date and like I'll be getting looks. And the guy's like, damn, like you get this much attention, like when you. I'm like, yeah, you know, I just come to territory and they're like I mean, that must feel good Like getting so much attention from people. I'm like no, it actually fucking sucks.
Speaker 4:Like it's terrible.
Speaker 3:You, you know, but at the same time it's like you know, I tell people pretty privilege isn't all it's cracked up to be, because it's a really shitty feeling when you realize that people only give a fuck about all of this out here and don't care about in here. In here, it sucks to be constantly looked at as like a thing, like a play thing.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean like a to be lusted after and not loved.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean? That's a fucking shitty feeling oh so, while, yes, I do get a lot of attention, male attention, um, all the time it's exhausting because most of the people that are like saying like, if it's like a genuine compliment, like oh my gosh, you look gorgeous or you're beautiful, or I like your dress, or I like your energy or your smile, love those compliments like, like a genuine compliment from people who don't even want anything from you.
Speaker 3:But then it's like the damn girl, you got a fat ass, or like you know what I mean?
Speaker 4:Just like bullshit, like that.
Speaker 3:The cat, calling the, yelling at me from across the street or the like, looking at me in a weird with the fault being followed.
Speaker 2:Cause we got to let you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Like it's like yeah.
Speaker 4:Being all up in your face and like trying to corner you type of thing you know like that's.
Speaker 3:It's scary number one because you don't know what this person's gonna do. You don't know what they're capable of, you don't know what their mental state is. Um, you know, sometimes it's scary to reject men because women have been killed for not giving someone their phone number right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I saw some stories like man so it's like it's crazy.
Speaker 3:So that's another thing that goes hand in hand with dating, is it's actually kind of frightening? Because, you don't like. You know women, we go on dates and you know you hear guys say what's your worst fear about going on a first date? Oh, that she don't look like her pictures. But for a woman it's that we might literally get murdered or raped.
Speaker 3:Like I'm always giving like, hey, this is the guy that I'm going out with. This is what he looks like. This is his profile. This is his phone number. This is where he lives. I'm sharing my location every time I go out with somebody. You know what I mean. So it's like it's almost way more struggle than it's worth to even be out here dating half the time anyway, because it's a it's kind of scary. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like you never really know what someone's capable of um and and what kind of dangers that you might be in every time that you fucking leave the house, you know. So it's like, yeah, cool it's. It's, it's cool to be pretty and shit, but you know that comes out of risk it comes out of risk and it comes with a lot of unwanted attention.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. So I've always got to have my head on a swivel, like I mean most women do. But it's just, you know it's. No woman wants to be fucking yelled at walking down the street. You know what I mean. No woman wants to be told she has a fat ass or big titties or you know, whatever.
Speaker 2:I mean if you know her, Like if I had a man, of course I want him to be like how big of an ass are we talking about?
Speaker 3:I mean, you know, I got a dump truck back here Like what if?
Speaker 2:she's wearing her booty shorts and they're out Nah.
Speaker 1:And we have both been on construction sites very, very high. If she's wearing booty shorts and they're out for everybody to see you can't say no, because we don't dress for y'all. I don't care at all period, Because we don't dress for y'all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah sometimes, especially bro, california, hot as fuck yeah you know what I'm saying. So it's like women, like we, want to be able to like wear things that we feel comfortable and sexy and without having someone be rude and creepy about it. Like it's like because the thing is lesbians, don't do that shit what you mean lesbians. Don't act like that. Lesbians will see a woman with cheeks out and whatever and not act like they have no self-control. It's a it's literally a dude thing hell, yeah, like yeah, but we can't
Speaker 2:control ourselves, but and sometimes we see that as complimenting you, um, sometimes we see that as giving you like, oh, letting you know your shit is hot, I mean, but you can say that without it being overtly sexual. Yeah, yeah, there's limits.
Speaker 3:right, there's a difference between like oh hey, you look good or you know whatever. And then being like, oh damn, you got a fat ass, like that's just rude you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like that's just, you don't need to be overtly sexual. Like I was doing groceries yesterday and some dude, I was like I think they were unhoused, but they were like chilling in front of one of the apartments that I deliver at and they were like talking to me. I was being nice, so I'm loading groceries, Right, and I had like a dress on and I have like a scar, you know, on my chest and like down here, and one of the guys was like oh, do you like burn yourself or something?
Speaker 4:Oh, he was staring.
Speaker 1:What are you talking about?
Speaker 3:He's like right here and I'm like so you're over here just staring at my titties like, yeah, and I'm just wearing like a sundress come on. You know what I mean like we're just wearing a sundress, minding my fucking business, and I'm just like, bro, like she's probably concerned about concerns.
Speaker 1:Do you need a bandaid for that? Sir, you can't help me. I see it a completely different way.
Speaker 2:I'm just like, I'm just like what was his name?
Speaker 3:random ass man on the street. Random ass man on the street how?
Speaker 1:are you feeling any follow up questions?
Speaker 2:yeah, I did have a follow-up question, or you want me to take it to the roundup? Yeah, keep going for it. All your listeners are going to think I'm a total bitch.
Speaker 1:No actually, yeah, I'm open to having you as well as our other guests having you on again.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay, we can take it into a totally different direction.
Speaker 1:I love that. I feel like we don't want a pigeonhole or yes, there's just so many facets to it exactly and we're just trying to give a brief overview. Yeah, and, and, and have our show along the way you remember, I'll let you shoot it off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I see uh rainbow flags around here. Yeah, we are in long beach. Yes, there is a huge lbgtq community out here. I grew up out here. There's a big parade.
Speaker 4:Yeah everybody here is pretty chill, you know um, there's not too, much much hate, hate crimes or anything like that.
Speaker 3:I mean, there's definitely crime, but maybe not hate crimes, but there's crime, right yeah, you know what I'm saying it's a big city.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know how are. Are you using that to your advantage out here? Are you bisexual, are you? I'm pansexual, okay, you're pansexual.
Speaker 3:So who like? Does that mean, you like pans? No, pansexual is like spicy bisexual yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, Spicy bisexual.
Speaker 3:I like people Like.
Speaker 1:I'm open.
Speaker 3:I'm definitely more heteroromantic, meaning I'm more romantically attracted to men, um, but I'm sexually attracted to men. Women um trans women, trans men, gender non-conforming, non-binary people, um I, I I can be sexually attracted to a spectrum of people, um, but I'm more hetero romantic. I've dated women, um, but that was more like when I was a little bit younger, is when I was actually dating a few women, um, but I'm also very intimidated by women wrote like sexually like I will never go up to a woman and talk to her.
Speaker 1:Okay, you have to come up and talk to me.
Speaker 3:You have to come up and talk to me, cause I'm just like dudes.
Speaker 4:I'd be like hey, you have to come up and talk to me, because I'm just like dudes. I'd be like hey, you come here. Yeah, you know women, I'm like hi, I like peas. I turned into a fucking goober you know what?
Speaker 3:I mean, um, so yeah, and I, you know, I go to the lesbian bars out here and stuff like that with my friends and everything, and like I have no intention of going up to anybody like if someone comes up to me cool jam, cool story, but I I will not approach like I remember, when I first moved out here, we went to like the skating rink over here and I saw this one depot.
Speaker 3:No, it's called uh pigeons roller rink it's like over by, uh, it's at second and pch like that mall down there, um. So it's like a kind of indoor, outdoor like skating rink, but we were there for like somebody's birthday, I think, and I saw this chick and we kept like meeting eyes and like looking at each other and I'm like oh she's really fucking cute and I'm like she kept like smiling at me and I'm like, oh, she's smiling at me, but I'm like I'm not gonna go up and talk to her like and for a second I was like, well, maybe I can just go out to her and like tell her like, oh, I really like your hair, because she had like really pretty curly hair.
Speaker 3:And I was like and I almost did it, but then I bitched out, couldn't do it and I couldn't do it oh, we gotta add that on to the life things that you got to get that tenacity towards the women?
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:I just and because the thing is like I said, I'm more romantically attracted to men and I'm at a point in my life where I am kind of looking for a life partner. If that should have like I'm not actively seeking it, but if that should happen in my life, I don't want to be a fuck boy. So I don't want to just be out here fucking women, fucking bitches you know what I mean and be like that fuck boy does body count matter?
Speaker 3:I don't give a damn body count does not matter no, because mine's very high, so no, body can't, doesn't matter, cause how are you going to know?
Speaker 2:Honesty.
Speaker 3:I don't ask people those kinds of questions, cause it's none of my business.
Speaker 2:When you're asked, do you give an honest answer. Yeah, oh, okay, okay yeah.
Speaker 3:But it's none of my business. I don't. I don't think it matters how many people you slept with. I just think that's like slut shaming territory, cause I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't see why people find that important.
Speaker 2:How do you feel about doing a sexual style of art Like the?
Speaker 4:I want to do it. Okay, I really want to get into that shit.
Speaker 3:It's so dope.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It is so dope Like. I've seen some great like. There's this one dude, dan Yakovlev or something like that. I think he's like Russian.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Bro, he did some crazy-ass tattoo of this chick sucking a dick. It was the most realistic shit on earth and I like and people in the comment section like this is fucking, why would you put this on your body? I'm like, can we not appreciate the artistry, though? Can we not appreciate how on point and dope this looks like? I would love to do like I kind of have, like I actually put out like a like an erotic flash page recently for like valentine's day. It wasn't like too crazy. It was like a paddle and then like some handcuffs and like um a stiletto and some booty cheeks um, and like a vibrator, um.
Speaker 3:But I would love to do like sexual, like more sexually influenced tattoos, but it's like a certain not everybody wants to get that. It's very nuanced. It's very certain group of people that would like to get that. It's very nuanced. It's very certain group of people that would like to get something like that so the thighs, y'all put them on the thighs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's where you put that stuff, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:um, so I I've been playing with the idea of putting out like more erotic forward flash. I just haven't had time because I've been so busy, but I definitely want to put out some because I there's another artist who only O'Leary, only O'Leary. She does a lot of erotic artwork. That's like a lot of what she does and it's so dope, like I, I really like it. It's really dope, dope art.
Speaker 2:I was looking at your sleeve, since we're battling on sleeves, Guys. We are battling on sleeves I. We're battling on sleeves, Guys. We are battling on sleeves. I don't know if she knows it, but I'm like probably the most competitive motherfucker, and every time that comes back from a session I'm like, let me see.
Speaker 4:It's like OK, I'll dissect it.
Speaker 2:So we are battling, we will send both sleeves, leg sleeves, and you guys can decide which ones you like. You know what I mean. We were thinking about doing a little bit of a poll, just a fun one. We both are accomplished and we feel very grounded in our art, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:You know exactly yeah.
Speaker 2:But we'll post most of these sleeves and you guys can go on there and you know comment. Tell us what you guys like about it. Tell us what you hate about them.
Speaker 3:You know, go ahead and talk about it a little bit.
Speaker 2:Um, it's been fun. Hell, yeah, I'm competing with you. You know what I mean. Um, zach is a good one to compete with too sometimes. Uh, we both face some of the same struggles going into the tattoo exactly zach's skin sometimes does not take color or it's very hard to red sometimes right like that's not anymore, though not anymore, I and I told you, I told you that one of the last times I tattooed you, I'm like what have you been doing different?
Speaker 3:Because it's not as red as it has been in the past.
Speaker 1:For everybody out there pre-workout, yeah, Pre-workout. Slow down on the. If you're going to go to a tattoo session, don't be pumping yourself up full of fucking caffeine. I sometimes still fall in the habit of working out before getting tattooed.
Speaker 3:Last time you did that, yeah, did that. Yeah, I could tell. And she's, yeah, my leg, because your leg was switching like his muscle. She's like you're, she's like it's fucking, it's involuntary yeah, she's like, but it wasn't affecting my work because it was twitching above where I was tattooing.
Speaker 1:But I was like this motherfucker people getting tattooed out there just keep that shit in mind yeah, and listen, listen, listen to your fucking artists, no matter who they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I used to send nuggets your way, like yo, turn your machine down Exactly, or that's like oh, I like that color she's using over here. Da da, da, da da, so that's been fun.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, that's been fun, most definitely.
Speaker 2:I'm glad being the middleman me too hard either.
Speaker 3:It was easy. I was just a girl with the punches, yeah we want 10 of that.
Speaker 2:He sits like a fucking champ, shows up on time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, shows up on time takes care of the tattoo it's a therapy for me. It really is yeah, well, and you talk about that like you know, like how do you like for people who want to know, like how is that therapeutic for you?
Speaker 1:as, especially more recently, uh, where I've developed some, some medical issues. Uh, I got neuropathy real bad in my legs, so in some spots of my legs I don't even feel the fucking tattoo really be completely honest. Yeah, and so, because it numbs out yeah uh, my leg will fall asleep yeah, and that fall asleep. I'll have that fall asleep feeling for hours holy shit, like Like the pins and needles All the way down the toes, and I haven't really talked about that that much, but yeah, so tattooing my legs specifically has been very therapeutic.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:They're big areas. They look beautiful. I've been very happy because I'm a big shorts wear and now I got something to show off. I got. I got because I'm a big shorts wearer and now I got something to show off.
Speaker 4:I got these badass pieces. I got to wear short shorts. People know that Zach likes his short shorts and yeah, so that's been the therapy for me.
Speaker 3:I love that.
Speaker 2:How is it going to two different artists?
Speaker 1:We touched on that a little bit with our episode with Nicholas and how many artists he's seen. It's a struggle, uh, because I wanted, I had in my mind what I wanted from two different artists and you, you rose the occasion, she rose the occasion. I can't, I can't say enough good things about these two artists. Uh, so happy. Good things about these two artists, so happy we're all having this like family meeting right now to sit down, because it's been really cool seeing their, both their different styles too, seeing the ins and outs, seeing the intricacies, seeing what they do, seeing how they prep for the day. They both have their own little routines, they both do their own things and and yeah, both these individuals are, have become very good friends, steadfast pieces in my life. So again, thank you for coming on the show. Of course, yeah.
Speaker 2:One of the things I wanted to ask you too, which is, Excuse me, area of art that I'm focusing on and trying to add in my bag of tricks is not African art, but African Americana art that hits like cultured Mexican art.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:It's a struggle. Yeah, how do you go about portraying the modern day American black man and catapulting its stories within the artistic world and tattooing like how, what?
Speaker 3:I mean I've I. There's this one artist and I'm really, really upset that I don't know his name, but he does a lot of very, uh, african forward portraits and artwork and, um, I don't you might've heard of him, I want to say is his Instagram handles like create something or something create. But he takes it to a different level where he has his clients come in and they do like a meditation before the tattoo, so, and then he puts like some of those like African meditative practices into his uh preparation for the session with the client and he's always creating like these, um, you know black forward pieces where he's turning, whether it's uh taking a portrait of the client or someone that the client is close to and turning having wear like traditional african garb in the portrait work, or you know stuff like that.
Speaker 3:So you think that's the correct version of americana maybe not americana as far as, like I'm assuming you probably mean like more like american traditional slave traded americans yeah what is know.
Speaker 2:I guess I asked this question because we immediately run back to Africa, exactly as our origin, for artwork and stuff like that but. I would like to create our own origin. Exactly I do this work it's called a contemporary tribal. Like I've changed tribal from African symbolism and I brought it into a modern touch, that's one thing that I've tried to do a few times and it worked really, really well, but one of the things that I really struggle with is drawing you yeah and me in today's, you know, uh, in today's world, and giving it that legendary aesthetic, that nostalgic exactly how do we do that as black artists?
Speaker 2:What should we do as black artists to make our culture?
Speaker 3:Kind of stand out, just like the Hispanic culture, yeah.
Speaker 2:Hispanic culture has black and gray.
Speaker 4:They have a style, they have the eagle, they have Aztec, exactly.
Speaker 3:You know, and yes, we have tribal markings and scarifications, but we all know that if you're out in america, that shit really doesn't yeah for us and they tell us that that shit don't yeah, because being, because there's a difference between being black in america and being african, because a lot of africans don't even fuck with black americans like a lot of them, don't fuck with us and don't like us.
Speaker 3:You know, what I mean, and I think that it's hard to grab hold of roots in a culture where we had our culture ripped from us. We were literally kidnapped and brought over here. So a lot of us don't have access to cultural roots. You know what I mean. A lot of us don't have access to cultural roots. You know what I mean. A lot of us don't have access to those tribal practices and tribal artwork and tribal um. You know that nostalgia that we can run back to because a lot of our history was erased you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So it's like when you have people who are like of European descent and they can track down their lineage and be like oh, I'm Lithuanian or I'm, you know, norwegian or Irish or Scottish or whatever. They're able to do that, but we're not. So I mean now, with the invention of like 23andMe, it's a little bit easier to to know what makes up our. You know ancestry makes up our. You know um ancestry but um, a lot of us still don't know, like you know what tribe our ancestors might have come from.
Speaker 3:Or you know um what type of practices cultural, religious, indigenous practices are people um practice and what that would look like if we transformed it into artwork because it was taken from us you know, it was erased and we, uh, and a lot of us today too, I feel like, with the like christian indoctrination of black people, a lot of black folks don't even go back there because they liken it to oh that's, that's that witchcraft shit.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean? Or that's? It's that savage shit, it's voodoo, it's the devil's shit.
Speaker 3:Cause I get that as a practicing witch. You know what I mean. I am a practicing witch and I tell everybody, um. So I have people who were like, oh, so you're a devil worshiper. I'm the way that. That's not what I said. You know what I mean, um, because I do like to. Um, you know, I have books on hoodoo and voodoo, which those things were demonized by colonizers because they didn't want us to realize our power. You know what I mean. So voodoo and hoodoo are not inherently evil practices. They are. You know, african ancestral practices and practices that you know come from, like creole folks, like you go down to louisiana and you learn about their culture and about who do?
Speaker 3:and voodoo practices down there yeah, and it's like it's not that we were over here worshiping demonic entities or things like that.
Speaker 3:We, it was our tribal ritualistic roots to be honest it was all herbal and it was very herbal and very ceremonial exactly, and that's what I do like when people, people have such a misconception of what the word witch means. You know, back when women were being burned at the stake and stuff, it wasn't necessarily because they were quote-unquote witches. These were medicine women, these were healers, these were midwives, these were, you know, women who had, uh, that were like matriarchs of their community, who were healing people, and the patriarchy was like not, nope, nope, we can't have y'all doing none of that.
Speaker 4:We're going to burn you, you know, or?
Speaker 3:or they would use the excuse. You know, men would cheat on their wives and be like, oh, it's because she seduced me, because she's a witch, burn her. You know, and no one was there, was no questioning.
Speaker 4:Nobody was like wait, hold on.
Speaker 3:Hold up. Can we ask some questions? You know there was this, this one thing that they used to do to determine if you were a witch. It was they would throw you in the river and if you drowned you weren't a witch, but you're fucking drowning, you're dead. Yeah, damned if you do, damned if you don't lose the situation. Right, you know, but you know it's.
Speaker 3:It's the same thing with, you know, african indigenous cultures and practices, that they were demonized and then christianity was beaten to us like no, this is what you're going to do. This is what you're going to worship. This is what you're going to do. This is what you're going to worship. This is what you're going to learn. This is the right way, this is the correct way. You guys are savages and you don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3:So now you have a culture of black folks who love them some Jesus and don't take any pride in any of our indigenous culture. You know what I mean, and that's the effect of colonization and white supremacy they want us to forget. So when you're trying to turn our cultural experiences into artwork, it's hard, because where do you even start with that? Right, you know, and the only thing that I can think is to just do research you know what I mean Like buy books on African culture and African statues and African symbolism, um, and really just strive to bring those out in your artwork and to just bring that culture back. You know what I mean. And I think it would be hard for us as a people to try to like quote unquote bring our culture back, because a lot of black folks don't want to and a lot of black folks don't care.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. And we've become so Westernized and so Americanized here and we've been taught that our, our culture and our ancestry history is ghetto or is um savage or is not worth remembering. You know, um, and that that type of white supremacy runs deep and it becomes internalized self-hatred. Hey, you know what I mean and I can say that firsthand because I used to have a lot of internal self-hatred as a black woman. You know what I mean. Growing up in a in, you know, predominantly white institutions and schools and um experiencing racism as a child at a very young age. The first time I experienced racism was in kindergarten. You know, and um, when people are telling you enough times that you're unworthy because of the color of your skin or you can't do certain things because of the color of your skin, you start to believe those things and then you internalize that and then you project it outward into your community by being like ah, here come these niggas.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean Like ghetto as hell and doing all this and that, and then it's like, uh, it becomes a cycle, you know. So then that further erases your culture, because now you're trying to assimilate, you try to code switch, you try to do all this, you know straighten your hair, because, oh, you can't have kinky hair, you can't. Your hair is nappy, it doesn't look professional, you know, and it wasn't until fairly recently, probably like the last five years, where I really came into my quote unquote blackness and have been proud to be a black woman. You know what I mean and you know I'm more activist minded when it comes to the black community. You know what I mean. I strive to talk constantly and use my platform to bring about social injustice and oppression when it comes to the black community and let people know that systemic racism is still very alive and well in this country, because you have a country that was founded upon racism. That is the foundation of this country. So when people say, oh, get over it, slavery was 400 years ago or whatever, bro, like it wasn't that long ago that my grandma was drinking from a separate water fountain and she's still alive. You know what I mean. My mom just told me a story, actually last night when we were having dinner, about a cousin of hers that got lynched when she was a little girl. You know what I mean. Like, my mom is 60. I'm sorry, mom, for telling people your age, but you know my mom's like 63 years old, so that's not that long ago. Ruby Bridges, who was the first black child to integrate into a white school, is like 60 something. This stuff is not that far removed from us. So of course that still seeps into our culture today and our institutions today. Slavery didn't go anywhere, it's now just called mass incarceration. You know what I mean and this is legal now. You know what I mean and it's just legal now. So you know it's.
Speaker 3:It's a struggle to sometimes, uh, you know, embrace your culture when you don't even really know what your culture is, because you've been fed a certain way to look at what your culture is and a lot of times we're told that our culture is too hood, it's too it's, it's unappealing, it's not professional, it's. But then you know, for example, you have uh, people who want to wear their natural hair or wear locks or braids, or you know Afro, and it's told that that's not professional, it doesn't look good, it's ghetto. But then you have a white woman who comes and does the same thing, and now it's revolutionary and it's and it's renamed, and now it's okay. So I think that's one of those things where people are like, well, it's just a hairstyle.
Speaker 3:I don't see what the big deal is. How come everybody can't wear their hair the way they want? Now I'll be the first one to say I don't give a damn how anybody wears their hair, I don't care. But you have to understand why some people are upset, because that's something that's a part of our culture and we've been told that it is almost disgusting in a way, and it's been demonized when we do it. But then another racial background goes and does it and they're praised for it, they rename, they take it and rename it, and now it's cool, and now they're monetizing off of it. You know what I mean. So imagine how that feels to be told that your culture ain't shit and then someone else goes and does it and all of a sudden it's popping.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. So I think you know I really encourage black folks to dive back into our culture, you know. Know, if they can, and to really dive back into the roots of our culture and stop demonizing your own culture because you've been indoctrinated to believe that your culture is evil inherently and demonic because you know it's got roots in hoodoo, voodoo and you know just indigenous ceremonial practices. You know, um, because, like I said, as someone who practices witchcraft and who, um, you know, likes to kind of fall back on some of these more, uh, indigenous practices that I do, there's nothing evil about it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like I I love positive, positive place, like you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like I deal with herbs and incense and I like to be out in nature and I do candle workings and I meditate and I do yoga and I drink tea and like I'm very, I have a very positive mindset, you know, for the most part, and I try to spread that outwards, to people around me, um, and just really get back to, like, the heart of being human.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean and what it means to be a human being and to also try to connect with something higher than yourself, like, for me, that's the universe, or sometimes I call it spirit, um, but I don't think trying to connect with a higher power and reconnect with yourself will ever be evil or demonic. You know what I mean, and that's not to say that some people don't hex people or do fucked up shit, but like there's Christians that do fucked up shit, there's Catholics that do fucked up shit, like you know what I'm saying like we don't demonize the whole of them, you know, because a few of them are doing fucked up shit. You know what I mean. As long as you're a person, it shouldn't matter who or what you worship.
Speaker 3:You know what I'm saying as long as you're happy and what you're doing makes you happy and you're not pushing it on other people and telling people that they're wrong because they're not worshiping the same way as you. Um, I don't give a damn if you worship a teacup. You think revolves around the earth. Are you happy?
Speaker 4:Cool, Like, tell me about the teacup you know, I mean I want to learn more about the teacup, you know um, so I think that you know a lot of things.
Speaker 3:Just get very convoluted because again our history has been erased and we're not being told our proper history. You know, it's been gatekept from us.
Speaker 2:Essentially, that's my challenge yeah for you yeah I want to see black artists doing more.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Original.
Speaker 3:Exactly Black art, yeah, for the culture, exactly With a nostalgic feel.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just like Hispanic artists do. Yeah, their stuff Exactly. Just like white boys do their stuff. Exactly but not necessarily with this hard African origin. Exactly Because there's a whole nother realm that has been untapped.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know it's been untapped, so oh yeah. And I'm anxious to see yeah, you got the gangster culture, the.
Speaker 4:Nipsey's and all of that stuff. Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean that's, that's been done. You know not everybody's doing that yeah.
Speaker 3:Everybody's done the Tupac portraits, all that stuff, you know, and I've done like some actually pretty dope pieces on my brother that are more like black forward. Like I did a cool picture of a like African woman but her Afro was made of daisies, you know, and it's got like a space background and stuff like that and you can tell she's black women. She had black features and it's supposed to be an Afro, you know. And then I even did one that I won an award for, a couple of awards for in El Paso. It was like a black African woman with an Afro but her Afro is galaxy. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So Afro futurism, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Oh, shit, yes, I follow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I follow, yeah, so doing stuff like that.
Speaker 3:you know what I mean, and I've tried to do a lot more black forward flash. You, I've tried to do a lot more black forward flash. You know what I mean, that I put out and stuff like that. So I would like to tap more into that, for sure, and tattoo more of our people.
Speaker 2:It's important that we do that because we, you know, like I said, thank you for being on here. You are the other balance on that scale with me, you know, with all of the black ink crew.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying Wait a second, we're with me, you know with all of the black ink crew. You know Sarah Wayne is down here like we're all messing shit too cool.
Speaker 4:So like I appreciate, that information and I just wanted to get your perspective from one artist to another on how to develop and what you think I should.
Speaker 2:you know how I should attack it?
Speaker 3:So thank you for that. Exactly, Of course. Thanks for asking I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:What was the quote you had come up with to round this out? Because I like it. It was pretty good. Don't be a dick.
Speaker 3:That's like my motto in life Don't be a dick, be kind. You never know what people are going through, and I think that the world lacks a lot of empathy right now and it's sad, um. And it's sad, um, because we are literally all on this fucking floating rock together, in these fucking meat sacks that we walk around in, and we're all just trying to fucking live our best lives and get by, and nobody is above anybody, um, and we should just strive to treat our fellow human beings better. You know, you really never know. You know what, what someone's going through. Man Like someone might be having a shitty, fucked up ass day and then you go and make it fucking worse Cause you just want to be a dick.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. Like I do.
Speaker 4:Like I was having a good day yesterday, somebody did that to me. Why are you choosing? You could have chose to go two ways with it.
Speaker 2:I did nothing to you Exactly, and we're here, exactly All right.
Speaker 3:And oftentimes it's because those people are miserable within themselves. Yeah because and that's what I say, that's why I tell most people is that most people who are dicks and assholes to people because they don't like themselves, they're unhappy in their fucking life and they want to share their misery with everybody misery loves company and you know I used to be a dick.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. I used to be very fucking angry. I was angry at the world, you know. Um, I was very cynical and just pessimistic and shit. For a long time like, I don't use facebook no more, but every time, every now and then, I hop on there and my little memories come up with some little rants and shit. I used to go and I'm like damn bitch, she was mad as hell yeah, oh my god, he was angry and you know there are still things that I'm angry about today, like injustices, but that's you know.
Speaker 3:That's things that you want to be angry about. You know, um, back in the day, I was angry about stupid shit like it reminds me of when kat williams was like you came banging on bacon I would just be mad at the dumbest shit you know what I mean, um, so I've noticed such a just transformation in my life by choosing to just have a more positive like aura about myself and how that transfers outward into the people around me.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like I'll be walking down the street and just be in a good ass mood and someone's like man, I could feel your energy from over here, like I, like that, you know what I mean. And then hopefully they take that energy and they pass it on to somebody else and they pass it on to somebody else and it's just like a, a, a energetic positivity chain. You know, um, but I just I always strive to be kind to people because you could really make or break somebody's day, man, you know whether it's a stranger or somebody that you're close to. Um, and if you had the choice, why not choose to make it better? You know what I mean. Like I, I worked with another um nonprofit, uh it's I'm an ambassador for and we focus on um, suicide and depression and mental health awareness.
Speaker 3:So I go out and I do speaking events and um, you know host Q and A's and stuff like that, um, and our thing, our focus, is mental health and suicide, and I always usually end with be kind. I don't say don't be a dick, because you know it's professional stuff. So, um, in my everyday life it's don't be a dick. In my professional, you know it's be kind, um, because you know mental health, man, it's.
Speaker 3:It's a very real struggle for most people in this country, whether it's depression, anxiety, ptsd, um, schizophrenia, like you know, all kinds of mental ailments that people have more often than not. Most people are dealing with that shit, especially after COVID. You know what I mean. Covid really mentally did a number on a lot of people, um, so kindness to strangers and to people you know goes a long, long, long way, man, you know. So, just, you know if you can choose kindness or choose to be an asshole, choose kindness, man, like I get that people have bad days and shit, like I'm not immune from bad days, but you don't have to put that on other people unnecessarily, especially if they didn't do anything to you. You know what I mean. Um, and you know I think more people should utilize therapy if they can afford it. I get that it's not affordable to everybody, um, but I think the world would benefit if more people utilize therapy if they can afford it.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. I think those are all really good things. Yeah, yeah, they're all really good things. Empathy she was choosing empathy.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Over frustration.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 2:Just man guys, it is not that fucking hard. It's not you know it's harder to be rude and to work your head around some fucking insult of why you hate this person who's absolutely struggling. You know when you're struggling I know sometimes you wish like, damn, like, why me? Yeah you know, is anybody gonna look out for me?
Speaker 3:like where's my little piece, you know?
Speaker 4:sometimes you can be that piece.
Speaker 2:guys. That's exactly what she's talking about, and from B to Z, guys. Zach today provided your guests and wow, what an amazing guest with a great point of views.
Speaker 1:We do have a little gift for you. We're trying to make a habit of giving the gifts on air so we get their reaction. We started last episode and you actually got the first wrap gift Right, and that's not because you're last episode, I love gifts and you actually got the first wrap gift Right. And that's not because you're a lady.
Speaker 4:I'll take that I'll take that, yeah, I'll take that Right.
Speaker 1:Oh, you even got me the zero sugar one. You're a snacker, I know you talk about the snacks, providing snacks, shut up.
Speaker 3:You did not, so I want to, trying to not do the sugar thing.
Speaker 1:But yeah, we appreciate you coming. Any any last minute shout outs yes, please.
Speaker 3:Um, I want to definitely give a shout out to my little brother, nice, because that man is literally my heart and fucking soul dude, like he of my what's his name?
Speaker 2:john mcknight okay, a little baby brother.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you're watching on live or not, but zach's not my brother, and my brother is literally one of the best people on earth, man he's just he's been such a support system for me, like he's always in my corner. He's always like making sure that I'm like striving to do my best, like he's my biggest cheerleader for sure.
Speaker 3:Like I. I would literally die for him, like I would take a bullet for him, with no questions asked, not even a second thought. Um, he is my best friend when people are like oh, who's your best friend?
Speaker 3:My brother my brother is my literal best friend on this earth. You know he was there for me through my alcoholism, through my sobriety. You know he's he's one of the people that pushes me to do outside of the box shit when it comes to tattooing. Like he'll be like you should tattoo this, you should do this, and I'm like I don't know if I'd be able to do that. He's like bro, I don't want to hear none of that. I can't do it.
Speaker 3:He's like he's like you're a bad-ass tattoo artist. He's like bro. Sometimes I think you don start realizing how much of a badass you are. Dude like he like. If it wasn't for him dude like that, uh, afro woman with the galaxy afro I was talking about. I did that on him at that convention. He's the one who convinced me to even enter into the competition because I was like, I'm just happy to be here, guys just happy to be here.
Speaker 3:He's like no, you need to enter this and I was like bro, do you see what kind of artists are here? Like there's no way I'm winning anything. And they called my name twice one for best today and then one for like first prize color or whatever and I was like I never looked at you like if it wasn't for him, I would have never done anything like that.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. So it's like he's really pushed me to really big up myself and just realize that I am talented. You know what I mean. Like so I just I love my brother so much, like I love you, you will love you.
Speaker 1:Hey, give her a follow too. It's at Inc Girl six, six, 666, that's your page. And then the at black moon lilith tattoo studio yeah, just tattoo, tattoo for uh for her her studio page. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no thanks. Thanks for coming on thank you guys.
Speaker 4:Yeah, shout out to little bro. Yes, little brother, all have a good one.
