Ever wondered how childhood inspirations can transform into a lifelong artistic career? Join us as we sit down with James Warf, a veteran tattoo artist with 24 years of experience, who shares his journey from painting rocks in his neighborhood to making a significant impact in the tattoo community. Discover the importance of working in personal spaces, the influence of mentors, and the unique blend of spontaneous and deliberate creative expressions that define his work.
James opens up about his artistic process, drawing inspiration from iconic characters, dark fantasy worlds, and personal experiences. From oil painting to watercolor, he explains the intricate details and emotional depth behind each medium, giving listeners a peek into his creative mind. We also dive into his fascinating practice of transforming abandoned landscapes into imaginative landmarks, showcasing his love for both immediacy and long-term artistic investment.
Beyond the art itself, this episode highlights the camaraderie and playful banter among tattoo artists, the emotional connections formed with clients, and the impact of travel on artistic inspiration. Hear about memorable moments, from humorous local legends to the profound experiences that shape a tattoo artist's journey. Whether you're an art enthusiast or curious about the tattoo world, this episode promises insightful stories, valuable lessons, and a celebration of originality and authenticity in artistic pursuits.
Ever wondered how childhood inspirations can transform into a lifelong artistic career? Join us as we sit down with James Warf, a veteran tattoo artist with 24 years of experience, who shares his journey from painting rocks in his neighborhood to making a significant impact in the tattoo community. Discover the importance of working in personal spaces, the influence of mentors, and the unique blend of spontaneous and deliberate creative expressions that define his work.
James opens up about his artistic process, drawing inspiration from iconic characters, dark fantasy worlds, and personal experiences. From oil painting to watercolor, he explains the intricate details and emotional depth behind each medium, giving listeners a peek into his creative mind. We also dive into his fascinating practice of transforming abandoned landscapes into imaginative landmarks, showcasing his love for both immediacy and long-term artistic investment.
Beyond the art itself, this episode highlights the camaraderie and playful banter among tattoo artists, the emotional connections formed with clients, and the impact of travel on artistic inspiration. Hear about memorable moments, from humorous local legends to the profound experiences that shape a tattoo artist's journey. Whether you're an art enthusiast or curious about the tattoo world, this episode promises insightful stories, valuable lessons, and a celebration of originality and authenticity in artistic pursuits.
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of B2Z Podcast. I'm Zach Batista here with my co-host, brandon May. What's going on, guys? And an extra awesome extra special guest Mr James Warf. Yeah, what a guy Fucking, james. Awesome extra special guest Mr James Warf yeah, woo.
Speaker 2:Fucking.
Speaker 3:Jim, Sound effects. Sound effects we're coming to you from your home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you very much for opening this up to us. It's nice to have you, yeah.
Speaker 4:Cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, we're in the lair right now. It's definitely a treat creation station, you know?
Speaker 4:yeah, it makes it my space makes it personal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like, as we're developing the show, it's important when we're dealing with artists to kind of catch them in their environment well, that's what I was telling zach. I was like you're gonna probably get the best of me if I'm in my own space, you know yeah, you feel comfortable and but you don't always get homes, you know, some of us don't even have them.
Speaker 2:You, know, keep drawing.
Speaker 3:If you don't keep selling some more shit. It's exciting to be here. Jim has been tattooing for a long time. He's tattooed. He did my stomach. We worked together for a little bit at Elizabeth street. He's been referenced many times on mike mccaskill's episode so, uh, we're excited to bring you an individual. Today's episode for me is about artistry and the embodiment of artistry. One's the one who's developed his craft, um, in a way where it exudes his to be his lifestyle. You know it is his lifestyle. So a lot of people do art and you can't tell their pieces. You know, if you go to a jim or die show, there is a very specific look and niche to everything that he does. It's not just oh, you know one thing and then it looks this way. No, they're all developed by vampires and wizardry. And you know he burns blood and candles and you know it looks. It just it's very, very deep.
Speaker 4:That's the nicest thing anybody's ever said. Is that a poem?
Speaker 2:right so it's super important to me. He's one of my favorite tattoo artists.
Speaker 3:I feel like I got to say that Awesome man, Thanks. Just because I feel like respect for me in artistry comes from being able to develop your own style and it has to exude your internals. You know, Jim is somebody who he doesn't try, he just is. You know what I mean and that's a good way to be. So here's Jim Walsh.
Speaker 4:Everybody know what I mean, and that that's a good way to be. So here's jim off everybody.
Speaker 3:How you doing, brother I'm good, thanks for all those kind doors. That's tight, yeah, man, you know. Uh, I think it's important to be said yeah, that's nice man um appreciate you you're. You've been tattooing in the inland empire for how many years?
Speaker 4:now 20, probably almost 24 years now. Yeah, have you tattooed outside of the inland empire yeah I've done. I've done a couple of guest spots like reno uh denver, colorado springs, uh trying to think where else? Philadelphia, florida uh canada, some stuff, yeah, lots like that, you know, yeah, who? Apprenticed you jim uh well, brett, I don't know if I got apprenticed technically. You know, yeah, I just kind of had friends that were tattooers and they kind of let me watch and teach me a lot of stuff I was, I did that whole like you want to be a tattooer, you go get tattoos.
Speaker 4:So I just would get tattoos from people that I knew and then I'd just ask them stuff. And then when they find out, they're like, oh, you're interested in this, right? And they were like, oh yeah, just they're like, just say that because they already knew I drew and stuff. Yeah, so then they taught me stuff and then, uh, after that I kind of was fucking around tattooing and then, uh, brian kind of found me and threw out three mutual friends and he kind of like got rid of all the bad habits. You know, brian's like good at so good at refining. Have you been a lifelong artist? Yeah, yeah, I think since I was little I was real little yeah, do you remember your first forms of?
Speaker 4:I can't remember. I remember, uh, I think I've been an artist since I remember, dude but um, I remember I have a really early memory of going to my grandma's house and my grandma's boyfriend at the time window painter, and he would like he took me window painting with him one time and he was like painting, fucking, like you know, snowscapes and trees and shit, and I remember him using sponges. And now as an adult I look back and I go that shit's pretty easy, yeah you know, but as a kid I was like that dude just made a fucking forest it looks amazing.
Speaker 4:He's like what the shit? Yeah, I remember going home telling my mom, like this is great, I want to be a window painter, you know. And then, uh, she said, from then on I just started doing stuff. But I think after we got back from that trip I went, uh, because I got in big trouble, for, uh, I painted a bunch of rocks. Okay, I grabbed a bunch of rocks and, uh, I painted them all up and then I walked around the neighborhood with a bag of rocks I was selling to my neighbors. Oh shit, yeah, my mom found out and she was like, dude, that's embarrassing man like you gotta go back.
Speaker 1:She didn't like that well she was.
Speaker 4:She was just like dude.
Speaker 2:It looks like we're like like yeah, we're trying to get some money, you know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so she had to walk around and like we walked around and like explained and like she, you know, I had to offer like, oh, here's your money back, here's your 50 cents, or whatever. And like, yeah, and they were, everybody was cool with it, but I remember her being like she's like crazy. And then after that I was just drawing freaking robots fighting lizards and stuff. It's tight.
Speaker 1:What age did you either want to get tattoos or think that your art was going to end up as as tattoo art?
Speaker 4:Dude, I don't know man. I remember my dad has tattoos and I remember thinking they're cool, oh yeah, yeah, and all of his friends had tattoos and they're. I remember thinking they were tight, you know, yeah, and like uh. So I remember just always like liking them and wanting them. I remember thinking they were cool and they and my parents had a thing. They're like all right, you turn 18.
Speaker 4:Like my dad was like, like, I'm gonna take you, do the thing first, and uh, yeah, and I think after that it was just it. And then when I turned 18 I was I actually had 17 and I was gonna move away from nevada and I was like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm leaving.
Speaker 4:So me and my friend went and I had a bass guitar and I freaking sold it like another buddy and then we took that money and I went and got tattooed from some dude that just didn't ask questions yeah, which city in nevada did you? Silver springs, silver springs just right outside of reno okay, yeah, you were born in reno I was born in fallon, which is like another tiny town. It's like a res town next to it like a rodeo town yeah yeah, cool, that's dope man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, man. Do you think that's inspired some of your art? I think all of it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah yeah, I think because we grew up where my house is at. There's like no, there's still to this day. There's like a neighbor, like across, like the desert. You can kind of see there's a couple houses that popped up here and there, but it's still like just open desert forever yeah, and stuff. So like it's just like nothing was out there. You could have bonfires and shoot guns in the front yard and stuff do you think that like solitude helped you?
Speaker 4:yeah, as an artist yeah, like flex your imagination, you're doing that stuff right, you know especially me and my friends were all like getting into comic books and like all that stuff. You know, we're like yeah, let's make some shit, let's make a fort yeah, you know let climb this mountain, dig holes and stuff and do stuff like that. And my parents uh, my mom was a school teacher forever, so she always had like there's art supplies everywhere.
Speaker 4:And then my dad is like just artistic dude, he would build shit and he'd always like like he'd build me a box car, you know, like a soapbox car, yeah, but he'd always like there always be something. I'd come out and he'd be like painted like a bobcat on it, you know, or like he painted like some crate, you know.
Speaker 4:So it was something extra there's always something extra on it, like I had a dirt bike and I'd come home and he'd like, oh, I tuned your bike and then I'd go out there and like painted flames on the tank you know, like he always did something like cool to it, you know so would you say, you got your artistic uh genes from your, your father?
Speaker 3:yeah, okay, I think so.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah well, and my mom too, because, like I said, I think, being a teacher, she always just did stuff, just constantly. She was always like, and she was a head start teacher on the reservation, so like there's like just a ton of artwork in that culture anyways. So she would be like, all right, I made like a treasure of a map for my kids for a project in the middle of the day. So she's like made this whole treasure map out of paper and all that shit. And then she'd be like they're staining it with coffee. And I would learn how you know, learn that she would do that. And I was like, oh, that looks way cooler. That's something I still think about today. I go like, oh yeah, if you just stain that thing with coffee, it looks sick. You know, yeah, it's old or something did your parents support you like?
Speaker 3:I see your pictures of your dad and he looks like a big early biking biker dude. You know what I mean? Yeah, um, and I always ask questions like hey man, what's your dad like? You know what I mean because jim's like the nicest guy. I've never heard him say anything bad about anybody, and you see him with his dad. I'm like man. That dude looks like he would fucking start some shit. You know, I think he's the same as me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's just chill, real, fun, real love gentle giant super loving super fun. Yeah, yeah, just a good time guy yeah, that's good man so when it came to growing up and you developing your artistry?
Speaker 3:did you get a lot of support from your dad and your mom?
Speaker 4:yeah, big time yeah, they were all about it.
Speaker 3:Well, what, like? What are the things that they would do to support or drive that hunger?
Speaker 4:I mean they would be like, just be like, oh, he's into the, he's into drawing or something like that. They're like, yeah, just paint the side of the garage or something. Or you know my dad be like, oh, you want to do that. And like, paint this freaking tank or something. Or like my mom, you know my mom would be like she's new, I was into drawing. She'd be like, well, you got time after school because I have to wait for her to get off. And she'd be like, just come in the kids that are just hanging out, just draw with them for a while. And she'd be all psyched about that and then always buy me, like you know, art supplies every, every year for whatever I wanted. It was always like around art, you know everything was always like around art.
Speaker 4:Give me a little easel for my bedroom or something. It was always around that stuff and I was like trying to draw, like I think at that time, when I was little too, I I was like I'm going to do comic books, like this is cool, you know, like I want to draw comics and so like, yeah, it was just all about comics and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:Were you naturally talented from the beginning? I know some people who get into no way. No Okay, so you had to go through it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, dude.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:So I think just tracing or like redrawing I remember redrawing robocop, a gang drawing ninja turtles, a ton, yeah uh did you ever come up with any of your own comic books?
Speaker 1:yeah, dude, I think I still have one it's like a little kid brain too.
Speaker 4:It's like. I think I saw it not too long. It's in some of my stuff but I saw it like I knew it's like it's like a character but he's got like all the coolest powers of every character that's around you know like he, it's like, it's like a character, but he's got like all the coolest powers of every character that's around. You know, like he's like. He's like, damn, this dude's got like Wolverine's claws. He's got a fucking spawns cape.
Speaker 3:He's got, like, you know, this fricking Magneto's jacket or whatever you know like like all the shadow or something, because I've always just like I'm like a knight, I've always been like a knight person, like so, like yeah one of the first stories, uh stories I heard of you was when you were at uh, inkaholics, yeah, and they said that you used to go paint abandoned buildings like monsters and creatures on abandoned buildings in the desert yeah, uh, what, what inspired, that, and do you still do?
Speaker 4:that, uh, I did so near my parents out, like on this there's a long dirt road that goes to my parents house and there's like a wall I don't know what it's for. There's just a wall standing in the middle of the freaking desert out there and it's like I don't even know it's. It's just a big wall and it's just leaning kind of. It's been there for who knows how long. I don't know what it's there for, but I'll go out there and paint that thing like I'd go home and visit and I go like, oh, I'm gonna go paint the wall and I go repaint it.
Speaker 4:I kept doing it and I kept doing it and then I would paint. You know, just running around randomly, I'll just go paint stuff yeah I wouldn't say I was like a graffiti artist. I was just like it'd be cool if, like, there was like this weird thing. People were like yeah, dude, there's like a weird monster over by the fucking river bottom you know, like something like that some guy painted a freaking snake lady yeah, it's cool to see that's like when you're knowledge.
Speaker 1:Are any of those still up?
Speaker 4:uh, the one by my parents house is. I painted this big like fat jackalope, yeah, and it's like takes up the entire wall and it's like huge and every once in a while, every once in a while, like someone, like one of my cousins or something that's going out to visit my family, will send me a picture like it's still holding strong and I'm like, oh shit that's pretty cool yeah, that's super cool
Speaker 4:but it's like it's funny because you drive and it's like nothing but desert, but just you know about like half a football field out in the middle of nowhere. You just see this big ass, fat jagalope, I don't know, it's like weird, like you're like what's that dude doing out there, or like you know some weird imagine, I guess all that stuff is like you want to make a story in your brain about it without having anybody to tell you about it. You're like damn, there's like a jackalope, you know yeah, you're.
Speaker 3:You're an artist, uh, a tattooer. Um, you paint watercolor, you do oil. Yeah, oh, what? How do you decide? Sometimes I'm like man, I don't want to. I'm going to stick to one thing because that's already enough. You know what I mean. Uh, what drives the oil? What drives the watercolor? What decides I?
Speaker 4:think oil is my favorite. I think oil is the funnest for me. For sure, it takes like a long time you know and.
Speaker 4:I think watercolor is just way more like, more like immediate satisfaction for ideas to get down. And so I think I think at one I don't remember what it was, but at one point I was like I got to learn how to paint watercolors Like they're just good, they're fun, they're not stressful, like I'm just going to do it, you know, and so I just focused on doing those. I didn't oil paint for a long time and then now it's kind of like a weird balance where, like I could do all like a watercolor painting in like a night or two, you know, and an oil painting will take me like a week or two, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:So it's like I don't know. They just get different facets to them. It just depends what I'm working on. Some things I go, some things I go like this is this shit's. I got this weird picture in my head.
Speaker 4:It's too too crazy for like watercolor you know, and then the other way, the other things I'm like this thing will be cooler if it's on, or it's on like a. It's not oil, it's like watercolor. You know it'll look more illustrative, right, right okay, yeah, let me move up, oh yeah, at the oil and ink show.
Speaker 1:I really dug the big one, the one of the night, yeah yeah, that was all. The unicorn was really cool too. Do you have a favorite piece in your home? Oh good, question man, because I, I, so I'm gonna post a bunch of pictures, um, of this, this artist's home, and it's.
Speaker 1:It's everything you, you dreamed of, it's. You got cool shit on the walls all over the place. You got retro shit, you got bitch and bitch and vinyls um, it's just what. It's everything you would think, uh, in my, in my mind. That's why I captured some photos of that. Thanks, man. But if you have any favorites favorite, yeah I know, so I know it's hard.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I don't know, man, because I'm almost I mean, I almost like immediately like dislike them when I'm done. You know, I might like them for like a week. Yeah, I'll be like that thing's cool and then after that I like I don't want to look at it anymore.
Speaker 1:What is that? Is that? Is it you think the never content, or you just are on the next thing? I?
Speaker 4:almost think it's like I don't know if it's never content. I go like, oh, that's cool, but now that it's done, it's kind of like don't know man, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 4:I almost think the the process of doing it is like the best part of it all. And then when it's done, it's kind of like, oh, that's, it's like finishing a book. You're like, oh, that was, I'm done with that story for now. You know, like that's cool, because I think while I'm work, I'm like I like I'll obsessively work on something. Like if I start something like, that's all I want to do until it's done, like I gotta, I gotta reach the finish. I gotta like see through that, that idea, like you know and like see it all, or just like a very unsatisfying feeling.
Speaker 4:Yeah and uh, yeah. So I mean there's pieces I like, like. I still like that night one. I think that's cool. Oh yeah, yeah, I think that's a fun one.
Speaker 3:I'm still happy with that, um looks like the unicorn, one's cool you know your finish rate to like start to finish rate on paintings like time was. Uh, if you're gonna finish it at all, you know, do you everything you start, do you finish?
Speaker 4:yeah, usually yeah, at least you know that's kind of rare, is it?
Speaker 3:yeah, even if I don't like it, I just get it to a point where I'm like there it is you know I've talked to other artists and you know they'll start something, they'll leave it, they'll lose it and then they'll come back for a few years. The reason I ask that is because I've never seen you not finish a piece that you started.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and not to say that there hasn't been moments in the middle of all of them where it's frustration and I go like I think I won't work on this thing anymore but I'll come back. You know, maybe I'm just like hitting like a weird block in it, but I don't. I think I finished everything, even if I don't like it, right because I just gotta go I don't know.
Speaker 4:You know, I never know like what the next turn is gonna do. It's gonna like I might do something to it. I'll be like, oh, just hi, dude you know, and then I'm like re-energized on it, like that's cooler than I thought you know what I?
Speaker 4:mean like I think, like I don't you like mean obviously they can't see it in here, but like that, that Reaper dude riding the dragon, yeah, Like that thing had probably a lot of moments where I was just like fuck, Like I think all the black splatter stuff was started out as an accident and then I'm like now I'm like that's like part of my favorite thing on there, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a little Bob, was it Bob Ross?
Speaker 4:Yeah, happy mistakes and its whole thing now and now, like you know, it's like it's got its whole, like I don't know, it's just got life in it.
Speaker 3:that's kind of what I still enjoy when you're developing an idea or a concept. How long does that take you and where does that come from?
Speaker 4:uh, dude, either I have it like right away or it's just like not nothing you know, so I gotta think it's usually something sparks and I'll be like, oh, I gotta write that down or draw it up or sketch it up real quick, you know do you try and theme your your pieces, or is it just I've? Tried that. Yeah, I've tried to be on like a theme, but I think you just get in a rhythm of like this is what I'm into right now, you know like right now.
Speaker 4:I'm all into like unicorns and because I think they're tight and so that's just. It just inherently makes a theme, I guess. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know, I don't know if there's a theme, I just want it like. I guess the theme that I'd be like I was like, if you look at it and it looks like I did it, like that's a cool theme. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like to me that's what I like. Yeah, they tell a story and you always have hide things in your you know, you look at it and you look at it 15 minutes later you're like, oh shit, there's a naked chick right there and she's like beautiful, you know, yeah, so I've always enjoyed that, just yeah, because every time you look at it, you'll see something different, both of the things hidden in there yes 100.
Speaker 1:You, you've done a few uh album covers. Yeah, you were. You were telling me you're showing uh again.
Speaker 4:I'll'll post those pictures for famous people Like local metal stuff and hardcore stuff, like things that I like.
Speaker 3:It has to be music that I like. Yeah, you did that jacket for Yellow Wolf. That shit was cool.
Speaker 4:That was a cool one. That's pressure. That was cool. That was like a roundabout. Someone asked me, you know, to do that for him. That was cool. Have you sold?
Speaker 1:any other, your other pieces?
Speaker 4:yeah, okay. Yeah, there's a. There's a bunch of big paintings that aren't in here anymore that I got. They're all sold and gone. How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2:it's kind of sad even though I don't want to stare at them all the time.
Speaker 4:You know, like I kind of like that's my thing, you know, and like, yeah, but I know, like I know where they're all at and it's kind of tight that they're being, like they're being cherished over there, where here I probably would have just like tossed them in the stack in the back room. You know what I mean, so that I like that better. Is it like a piece of you?
Speaker 1:like, do you? Do, you wish?
Speaker 4:that they go to a good home, yeah, for sure
Speaker 1:almost like yeah like something you'd have to give away.
Speaker 4:They gotta be appreciated, you know, yeah, there's a few like I've. I've like given stuff away in like random, like like um, like charity things I'll give. I'll be like I'll grab a painting. I'll be like, all right, I'm just going to give this to the charity thing and I don't know where it went, right, yeah, did you go to art school? I went to like a design school in Phoenix.
Speaker 3:Okay, did that help out your career? Did it teach you a lot?
Speaker 4:I don't know, man. You know, like I don't think it was a great, a great experience. I mean I went to it and it was like it was a, it was like a cat. It was a purpose for me to be in Phoenix, to be in that thing.
Speaker 4:But I think I want to say I think I I mean I think I learned a lot more from my time outside of school with like a new group of people and friends, and I think there's a lot of the people that went to that school were kind of similar to me where they were like, you know, they wanted to be artists but and so this seemed like the right way to go. And so while we were in the school, getting like real kind of down for ideas, um, outside of it everybody was still doing stuff. Like a bunch of my friends were like crazy graffiti stuff, a bunch of them were just like musicians and all this stuff, you know. Yeah, so I think I learned a lot while I was there, but I can't, I don't think I think in school it was. I just remember a teacher going like you're not here to be an artist, you're here to make money. And I was like eh, I remember calling my parents and being like listen to what this fucking nerd said to me, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where was the gap? Describe Brian getting you or you getting or you get or Brian getting ahold of you. Yeah, like was that after I was after school.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I had moved here to California and I hadn't been here very long. Ok, I had moved here and I just immediately made a few friends through like skateboarding and working. I worked next to Zach and in the in the off the wall complex and there was like a store down the way that had a. My buddy's wife at the time worked there and he worked as a piercer in that shop. And then my buddy that was a musician that was in a band with me, also worked in that shop as a piercer.
Speaker 4:And so they were kind of like hey, dude, like you need people like there's this guy, jim, we know, and like this and that. And so I went in there actually and I got tattooed, did that thing. I went in there, I got a tattoo from a guy and then, um, you know, just to kind of show a little face time, and then I started like they were like we'll just keep coming with us, and so I kept going and I brought like at one point brian was like all right, I'm open to like seeing what this guy's all about, and so I he asked me to bring some drawings and I brought some like probably terrible drawings and he ripped them apart.
Speaker 4:But he was like, all right, we might be able to work with something you know, because he was like you're right yeah oh, okay, and he was like you're already kind of fucking around tattooing and like I don't want that to continue either.
Speaker 1:You know so he was tough on you.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, oh yeah, it was good, but a good tough, you know. Yeah, like all that stuff. Now I look back and I go yeah, he was right. You know, my waves were trash man, his flames were trash, all this shit was trash.
Speaker 3:You know, looking at an old portfolio is very humbling. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like man I thought that shit was tight.
Speaker 4:And it's like garbage worked.
Speaker 1:You know who'd you learn right in the beginning. Who'd you learn the most from?
Speaker 4:probably from brian a bunch, uh. And then there were guys like I still had friends that were tattooers in other places, like my buddy damien tattooed in, uh, um, orange county area and like we were still talking, he tattooed me a bunch and I like his tattoos a lot. And then we had this guy, groovy, that worked there. It was like I was got real tight with and like he was a fucking cool tat. He was like an old, old tattooer, but not even that old he was, just seemed like he was like he didn't want, he just wanted to show up, do some tattoos. He didn't want to draw outside of the shop and go back to his family. He was kind of like a nascar dude, but he was like he had sleeves since he was like 14.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know, he was like a little, he was like.
Speaker 4:He was always like that's tight yeah we like, we like bonded on a lot of like metal music stuff, but he was like ah, he's like, I'm not like a metal, I'm a death rocker dude, yeah you know you made a delineation right there, but you always see me doing like all this, like see me do like too much shit, you know being like I'm a fucking purple on the outside of this thing, and he'd be like don't do that, dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know he'd be like. He'd be like tricking it. I'll do this whole and he would.
Speaker 3:He would be like I'm going to do this whole dragon with just one thing of ink, yeah, and I'll just be like, damn, there's like, there's some like subtleties to this craft that are tight, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, I learned a lot watching him. Yeah, that's cool man I saw it's groovy, the picture with the fireman, with the fireman okay, yeah, you go to elizabeth street.
Speaker 3:You gonna ask about that picture like who's that?
Speaker 4:you know, it's like a school picture he's got like a kid's fire hat on.
Speaker 3:It's a dope ass, dope ass picture.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a good picture.
Speaker 3:Do you have those pictures of Nordic Dave? That's what I was just going to ask you. Oh, I have the gun one here.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, so I definitely got to see that one.
Speaker 1:It was brain-basing, yeah, we were talking about it at the art show.
Speaker 4:Yeah, For everyone that didn't get that story, though, is can you summarize that story? Because of him I don't know he's got that picture has been around town for a lot of years and so he's. He was just getting recognized all the time as this like big, gnarly dude with like a bed of gun. He's basically you know it's him sitting in a bedroom.
Speaker 4:I think it's his bedroom it's not, it's not like the tidiest looking joint you know, but it's got like four-wheeled magazine on the and fuck it. And then there's about 30 guns like rifles and everything like everywhere and he's wearing like a coercer with no fucking shoes on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it's like a, it's all thing is like a time, you know, yeah and yeah.
Speaker 4:He said he would just get recognized all over town, that thing.
Speaker 3:But then, there's not that many, it's like seven.
Speaker 4:I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to get recognized regardless.
Speaker 3:ZZ Top he got the big old beard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's trying to play it off. He just fits in.
Speaker 3:I'm over here bro, If your shit is past here and super, super white and you got a fucking white do-rag on. I'm going to keep it pushing. We don't need to have a conversation. You're going to yell some shit at me. You know what I mean. Like fuck that guy. I don't know him, but fuck him yeah he's a freaking giant man yeah but, he's the sweetest guy ever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, super nice guy. He's the sweetest guy ever.
Speaker 3:That's the part that you know. People have probably tried to chop that tree down many of times and he probably fucks their head up because he's like very solid and a clear thinker.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean? That dude just ducked into the room like under the door, jam like what right fuck?
Speaker 3:right, and he doesn't necessarily smile unless he knows you too, I'd like I got that first too. Yeah, you know, it's like man, I don't know this guy. Yeah, that guy's tight Do.
Speaker 4:I want to know this guy. Yeah, I want to know this guy. That dude's been getting tattoos by me for a long time and it's always been the same. He's just a big gentle dude. That's tight, you know, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:As far as painting and watercolor and artist, uh, and the finish and the varnish, yeah, thanks, man. In the after effect, yeah, I feel like I get more of the artists through oil painting.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean, because I think.
Speaker 3:So, man, yeah, I think so, um, you paint very fast, uh, on watercolor, jim, jim used to. I used to fucking be painting watercolor, pissed off. I'm like jim, help me out. He'd come over and just two minutes, bro, just just do like that. And I'd be like I would try it and it just wouldn't go down I still try some of the styles and develop it, but it just doesn't fit with my niche.
Speaker 4:Your style is very loose, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, I try to balance that out, because sometimes I don't like how loose it is either. I go like, ok, I tighten this up a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how would you describe your tattooing style? Because I asked Brandon I go. What genre you know? What style does he fit in? He's like he fits in the in the gym style. It's like there's. There's no explaining it.
Speaker 4:We're like, where are those roots come from? Yeah, dude, I don't even know man because I couldn't.
Speaker 4:I don't know, I mean everything's traditional based. I just like outlines and feel, you know, if it's got outlines, I like it, I like stuff to be illustrated. And then I get sometimes I get like a real weirdo and I start like doing weird details, like my paintings, yeah you know, and like uh, um, I don't even know, man, it's hard to say what exactly it is, because because I like so much from every different job, like I like so much japanese stuff, I like so much traditional stuff, I like this. You know, sometimes I'm like, oh, dude, that dude just painted that whole skull yellow, like that is tight. You know, yeah, like weird stuff. How?
Speaker 3:do you feel about like psychedelic artists, stuff like have you ever done a painting like on mushrooms, and to see if there's a different result?
Speaker 4:I think I think I weed and freaking painted before, but not like that. If I'm eating mushrooms, dude, I'm like I'm an adventure baby, you know what I mean. Paint and sit down for two seconds.
Speaker 1:Like you know, dude, I'm in a wetsuit, I'm freaking in the street.
Speaker 4:You know I'm like trying to get my buddy, hey, buddy.
Speaker 1:You have a pretty cool little buddy here, your dog. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's the best she goes everywhere.
Speaker 4:Yeah, if I can, if I can take her, she goes with. Yeah, I dig that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, she's a jam right on one of the things that really I enjoy is that you're in the motorcycles. Yeah, you're in the motorcycles too. He rides a chopper, you know you have an aesthetic about you. Have you ever wore the shoes I bought you, those fucking Nikes? Yeah, dude, okay cool, yeah, hell. Yeah, you know I was trying to gift my boys all the time. You know if I'm getting a discount on a shit and I just swear to God like I gave it to them, I gave him a bootleg Bobby Bonds jersey.
Speaker 4:I said I got from the homies.
Speaker 3:That shit is tight, I'm like this is your shit, Didn't ask for it. I'm like yeah, this is you dog, this is you. He's like all right.
Speaker 4:B. It's because, you know, dude, you know, there was like I don't know if Mike remembers, because he always kind of clowns me on it, but it was like I went through like a phase where I was like, yeah, jerseys and headbands, dude, I was like that's fucking rock and roll, you know, like the nelly version.
Speaker 1:Yeah early 2000s gym or what I guess. So I don't know, I forget my mind.
Speaker 3:I was like this is some like yeah, yeah, right as you refine, as you get older, you know, within tattooing, within art, um, do you feel yourself shifting?
Speaker 4:and yeah, also big time.
Speaker 4:I just I think I want to do more stuff that I'm like I try to get it to where I'm like, like I was saying, I don't like stuff like that often, like I'm trying to get more, do more stuff that I'm like feels timeless to me, maybe, you know, and not just like bullshit, because I think the paintings that I don't like a lot of times are stuff where I just did it, you know, for the sake of painting and like going through the motions. So I'm like, all right, if I'm gonna sit down, I want to do something that I'm like, oh yeah, I remember what I was doing at that time and why it's like I felt that way, or whatever you know, or what freaking crazy idea in my head. This is all. Most of the time, I mean forever. Most of the time it's like I'm trying to live it.
Speaker 4:I try to build this like fantasy world where, if you look at it, you're just like. You're like what fucking book is that from? Dude? Or like what you know is that this, there's something, and I'm like I don't know you, tell me you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:I don't want to describe it. I want you to like, make it up in your own head, and so I want to do stuff like that, where you can look at, look at it and be like, oh dude, I kind of have this weird idea of where this might be from and it's timeless and all that stuff you know stuff that I'm kind of like I'm proud of.
Speaker 1:Have you, have you gotten any inspirations from anything you've read? Or have you have you tried to match anything? Cause I because I was a big reader too growing up uh, reading all the jr tolkien and everybody in those fantasy worlds you try to imagine it. Did you ever get inspiration from that?
Speaker 4:yeah, man all that stuff. Like I loved all that stuff. I I never. I was never like, uh, I mean, I I appreciate like lord of the rings and stuff like that, but I liked, like some you know, cone of the barbarian or like beast master, like mad max, like they're like dirty but they have like weapons and they have like armor but they're like, you know there's still like romance and like shit like that, or like vampire stuff you know, like this kind of gritty, like dark stuff that I think that's what all like inspires, all of it, you know yeah this is like imaginary world of like gritty, dark, like all that stuff.
Speaker 4:I think that's really cool, yeah to me and you know like and I don't want it to be from anything specific, I just want you to be like like that unicorn I painted. I don't think, you know, you'd be like, damn, that's like, maybe that's what this character's fricking ride, or something like that you know, or like whatever you know, yeah, yeah. So I think like doing stuff like that to where it's like purposeful, purposely done ideas that I can look at and be like, yeah, that's cool, you know, I might look at that. I'd be psyched if someone wanted to use that for something, something like that.
Speaker 3:When you're developing these pieces with a more detailed piece and you're hiding these gems.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:You see me, guys. You know what I'm saying. You're hiding these gems in there. Is it what fills the space? Is it what feels good?
Speaker 4:Or is it what develops? I know what you're referring to. Come on now, Just do what feels good. Man Right.
Speaker 3:Just do what feels good, what's your heart say, baby.
Speaker 2:I was going to pick up on that.
Speaker 4:That surprised me.
Speaker 1:How much that got under his skin. That's my teaching method.
Speaker 4:I go just let it. That's the answer. Yeah, just, I go just let it. That's the answer. Yeah, they just do. It feels good and you know what. It works all the time well maybe not to hear it but for me it works days where.
Speaker 4:I'm just like yeah, that tattoo is just that tattoo well, I go like you know, if you're, if you look at it and you're gonna do something, and it feels good for a reason, it must be like somewhat right to put in there but from your point of view, do you think, did you like that?
Speaker 1:Did you like firing him up a little bit? Do you think that drove his passion? It's like one of my favorite passions?
Speaker 4:I think so too, Since we're here.
Speaker 3:I was a little bit fucking worried, because you're one of the people that could still fuck me up a little bit if I don't know if you're serious or if you're joking or whatever the other day he called me skinny, and then I had called him skinny the day before the other time and I was like, did he just? Fucking do that, because I fucking told him he was skinny fucking yeah and then he'll he'll tell me his jokes and shit like that.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I'll get him and sometimes I won't, and I want to laugh.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. But then he'll just laugh at me in the sweetest ways, in the sweetest way that's the best dude, but that's kind of what it is that with these guys, zach, mike, jim, brian, depending on what the fuck the mood is. Man, you might not get a straight answer the whole fucking day.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean. It's so fun. It is so fun to make fun of your friends though.
Speaker 2:It's like the best fucking thing it makes it go by faster too, you know if there's ever like a warm, fuzzy feeling in my stomach.
Speaker 4:it's when I'm like razzing on my buddy and I'm like yes.
Speaker 2:That makes sense.
Speaker 4:And then you see, something there, like a twinge in their eye, and they're like this motherfucker just said that shit and I'm like yeah that's the road I need to go down.
Speaker 1:This is good. Keep on poking, yeah it works out.
Speaker 3:You know, I've never heard you say anything bad, but you definitely talk shit and you get away with it. Mike's always talking about how he gets fucking castrated for the shit he says to his clients. Yeah, and this fool could say way worse shit and they're just like oh, it's fucking jim. You know, and I'm just like you know some people, yeah, it only works for some. You know what I mean. I can't do that shit. I'll check me too, but he's got that thing and, ah, dude, sometimes I feel like if, like, I don't know what just happened right now like was he clowning, was he talking shit?
Speaker 4:like in a loving way.
Speaker 3:It's because I care right I'm like in my skinny cars like do I need to lift a little bit? You slimmed up, it's good, dude have you have you enjoyed?
Speaker 1:I mean you've stayed here a long time. You enjoyed working here the most. Yeah, I mean I like this.
Speaker 4:I like being around this area. I think that's nice, you know you hella loyal yeah, I guess.
Speaker 4:so I'm pretty good. I mean it works, you know. I mean it's nice to kind of go out and this is a nice base right now for like being able to go to other places and tattoo for a little bit. And of course, other places I go like I can make that work. I can make that work, but something about that I don't know. There's just a lot of people here that I care about. It's fun to tattoo with your friends and, like you know, your clients always become like kind of buddies too, and it's tight because they let you the more they.
Speaker 3:You like weird stuff. I mean, you're kind of fucking famous around here too. Though, bro, get out of here. I'm just saying, in the tattoo world we live in, you could be all humble all you want, but everybody knows who the fuck you are. That's cool, yeah so riverside, need to give you a wall they need to give you a wall so you could get up. Give a real mural riverside county. You guys are slipping by now man, man we might be able to get this started.
Speaker 2:I'm saying that's how it starts, because I'm petition can we apply a little?
Speaker 1:pressure please. You know, yeah, I see they're beautiful.
Speaker 3:I love the murals that are going up, yeah big time, but my, my guy, jim, over here, is good, he will offer you something different and be a showstopper, just let him do his thing you like vikings?
Speaker 4:they're like why does that dragon have udders? And I'm like I don't know, it's so cool.
Speaker 1:I'm like you painted it one in the morning, yeah, yeah they're like.
Speaker 4:This wall's been making progress.
Speaker 3:We didn't ever see him, though how do you feel about abstract art?
Speaker 4:I don't know man.
Speaker 1:I thought that's probably something he doesn't like.
Speaker 3:I've never seen him be like oh, this is abstract, everything is like. No, that's a fucking that, that's that. You know what I mean. This is abstract. Everything is like no, that's a fucking that, that's a, that's that you know what I mean, like this is my interpretation of a drop right. You know what I mean I can't.
Speaker 4:I don't know. Sometimes I go like there's times where I get and I've seen abstract art that I like, but then there's times where I'm like, yeah, you're just fucking phoning it in dude, like there's. No, I just don't see any life in a lot of that stuff. You, you know where I'm just like and maybe I'm just not tapping into that part of the world, but like of that art stuff which is fine.
Speaker 4:Um, I don't know if if, like a piece of art that someone's doing doesn't have any, they're not putting any life into it.
Speaker 3:I just go like eh, I feel like you can feel it, you know like there's nothing in it. You can, you know, don't just make me no sober sandwich, no pity sandwich. I want some love sandwiches, toast and bread, ah shit Love sandwich. Yeah, Sorry bro.
Speaker 2:I just had a big conversation with my bro about this shit.
Speaker 3:You know, maybe I'm gay, you feel me. Maybe it's a nigga over there making sandwiches guys, you feel me.
Speaker 4:We finally did it. Zach, you owe me 10 bucks.
Speaker 3:I'm just kidding. Who's to say that that's a woman making that sandwich? God damn it.
Speaker 4:You ever get a sandwich made by one of your buddies, dude.
Speaker 1:That's what the lover's doing. You want to fucking hold hands through the mall dude.
Speaker 3:Fuck man, I just got off a big conversation with my bro and he's like like, hey, you kind of straddling the line a little bit and I was like, oh yeah, I want to be better, but I'm trying to be authentic. You know, hey man, like let's go, come get me, bro, like I, what you gonna take from me. You know like don't pick it and all that shit, I don't careas, gotta eat bro Brandon's hand is on my knee right now.
Speaker 1:We're trying to rewrite the narrative.
Speaker 2:A lot of people have been saying he's harsh, he comes off real tough.
Speaker 4:Right. Welcome to season two of Love is.
Speaker 1:Sandwich.
Speaker 2:I don't tell them that part Can we put it like a man.
Speaker 3:We're going to have to push that a little bit. We're definitely going to have to mess with that one a little bit. I like it, but hey, you know, I love all the women out there. You know what I'm saying. Back to the art. What were we just touching on? We were talking about abstract art. Oh, abstract art, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, I abstract art.
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, you know, I don't know if it's got if there's feeling behind, I think you could tell you know, yeah, some cool stuff. You have a favorite artist that you that does like abstract stuff, no, or that just in general.
Speaker 4:In general yeah dude, I think, um, I mean, for frisetta for sure is one of my favorite boris valeo's I think it's incredible. There's also, like tattooers, that I really love, love eccles tattooing and paintings, uh, of Chris Khan's stuff, which I think is a pretty across the board Amazing. Um, yeah, dude, there's so much good stuff, but I think those are, you know what, the thing that I commonality of all those pieces, all those painters too, is all their pieces look like they're from something you something you know from some story or something, and it's tight.
Speaker 3:Do you think there's a point where artists can study too much? The internet is full of places that you wouldn't.
Speaker 4:You know, you see more art in one day than you would see in a lifetime because of the internet. Now you got to be careful how much you take in it and you got to be careful, like what you put in your brain. Yeah, I think. I mean I don't know if you could study too much, I just think it's like how much do you like take and apply as opposed to just learning? You know what I mean, because you can take stuff and then you just put yourself, you just kind of cut yourself off from a lot of freedoms of stuff.
Speaker 4:That's why, like, someone that has never seen any art is making something like that shit's completely original and probably kind of interesting, you know, as opposed to someone that's like just pulling from all these facets of things where they're like this is how you're, they're like this is how you're supposed to do this, this is how you're supposed to do this, and you're like, ah, dude, you're kind of fucking lot leaving room for just like creativity or doing something weird and wild and like putting too many rules on it. Yeah, you put too many rules on it and you, you're you're which is? You know, I get it. There's a. Rules are important for a lot of like imagination part, like just as important. You know what I mean?
Speaker 4:yeah, like do weird shit. Who fucking cares? Everybody wants boring artwork in their house if they're gonna buy it. Like, do something weird, it's cool. So like, yeah, I think you can. I think I don't know. I like learning shit all the time too, you know. But uh, I know I'll read books about like techniques and stuff like that too, but I gotta take them with a grain of salt. I go, you know what this is like a problem that I had, like I can't figure out how to make this color do this thing. So like, I'll learn that and I'll probably learn some other things. Then I'll be like, well, if that color does that shit, what if I just spread that shit over here too, you know?
Speaker 4:and then something weird happens and you're like, oh, that's tight all right, right, yeah, yeah, do you.
Speaker 3:So you experiment through your paintings? Yeah, and then if it works out in a painting, you bring it to a tattoo.
Speaker 4:I think if I think it could transfer, I'm a lot less like willing to do that now because I want tattoos that are like just gonna be like last, you know, and look good forever. I think I've seen too many, but I've done where I did, some experimenting and I feel like I was like, oh you know, it probably looked cool then but was probably wasted work. I should have just like made it clean and nice, good looking, you know. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Your tones have changed a lot. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, um less shading, more open space.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, like they're breathing in there, but they're still super strong, just dramatic. And yeah, like the drama, you know, especially if with colors, like if I'm going to do colors, I want them to be like like toned down vintage colors.
Speaker 3:I don't, you know, I don't necessarily want anything super bright sometimes, when I paint, I paint as if the painting is going to heal you know what the mind said.
Speaker 1:It's just like what the fuck is that you?
Speaker 3:know like all my lines are too close. I don't necessarily like that because I feel like that's controlling my artistic knowledge and whatnot.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but yeah, when you're painting, like that's supposed to be, like supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be supposed to be fun, you know like you're supposed to just like have fun.
Speaker 1:Has anyone ever conscripted you Like? Have you gotten the subject matter before painting anything? Or that's just solely with tattoo, or or even with tattooing does that no, I definitely have.
Speaker 4:I've definitely done commission stuff okay, and I don't know if I enjoy it like a lot. You know, yeah, I kind of go like, ah, this is kind of like my sacred little thing that I'll do. You know, yeah, and I like, I like, I like the ideas and working them out and stuff like that, whereas like tattooing, you know, like you were pretty much getting commissioned all the time, even if it's something where they're like I just want something for you to draw, something like it's still commissioned because you gotta be like.
Speaker 4:You gotta be like because even you know I'll let people be like they're like you don't have the space just filling in with something cool and I'll be like well, what I think is cool, you might not think it's very cool right, so, like, let's talk about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is a very weird gray area for artists. I find that when people seek me out to do commissions or certain things and they're very like structured or I do not, yeah, approach it with the same vigor, you know, or get the same feeling of accomplishment when it's done.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know so yeah, it's got to be. That's like a. Really that's a cool thing that you get to. That happens like if someone you know asks you to just fill a spot with something you think is cool, that's like, yeah, that's awesome. Like I do, I love that. But I always have to kind of figure out a direction. I'll be like, well, what do you? You don't like skulls, you know you like eyeballs, you know like this is that, and so you have to kind of like okay, I got to take this stuff off the plate and then I got to think about like well, this person does this and this person's like this, this is a family person, you know. Like I got to you know, so it's kind of it turns into like commission. But you got to like Kate, you got to like tailor, even the open idea to the person, it can't just be off the wall unless they're just picking something from my book and that's cool One thing I approaching a client where I'm trying to decide a tattoo for them is I do Intel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I go through their Facebook. I go through their Instagram. I look how they dress you know what I mean when they're dressed up and I look how they're dressed down. I look what they put on Instagram. Nobody ever wants to put a shitty piss a picture on Instagram.
Speaker 3:Right, they're only showing their best and literally it's a magazine for their life. And literally it's a magazine for their life. Yeah, so I'll go through that and be like all right, you know, I can't. You know, this guy wants a lion with blue eyes. You know what I mean. Like you know, or yeah? Yeah, I can't put that I can't give that to Nordic Dave. Right, right, I can't give that to Nordic Dave. He's going to be like yeah, I told you to.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean like yeah, you know that's when you go you want a lion with blue eyes.
Speaker 4:How about a lion with lightning eyes? Yeah, right, right, breathing fire, that sounds right, yeah, you recently did a piece um I
Speaker 3:got gifted from my lady. She bought a mirror and he did a cyborg panther he knows I like panthers.
Speaker 1:You feel me and he just killed it.
Speaker 3:We got to tattoo it.
Speaker 4:We got to tattoo it. Yeah, I'd like to tattoo that thing.
Speaker 3:I think it's cool, it's a must. Yeah, it'll be like my third, fourth panther.
Speaker 4:But whatever, yeah your first cyborg, I mean who's counting?
Speaker 2:You know exactly yeah.
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 4:Oh, a robot. I'm getting a robot next for my boy which is getting tattooed. Next. I don't have anything in the lines I don't know. I don't know, I'll figure it out. I got going waves like when I feel like getting tattooed, but I'm sure I'll figure something out. Next, do you have a favorite piece? On you I mean, I have, like my sister's names on me and that I really like a lot that zach did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like those a lot, I think he, those are cool, he's so sweet.
Speaker 4:Hey, that's my crew.
Speaker 2:So fucking sweet, this guy, that's my crew, yeah.
Speaker 3:You do have a tight family. You guys are still very tight. How does that happen? You know.
Speaker 4:Dude, honestly I think that happens just living in the middle of nowhere out in the desert, and that's like we had to be each other's best friends, you know yeah you know, yeah, it was like we're all hanging out together all the time. You got all that arguing out, you get the arguing and the fun times and then that just builds that bond and it's like tight, you know yeah we're all different, but they're all like. You know, there's a lot of similarities, so I think we're like just tight you recently took a trip to.
Speaker 3:Was it italy? Yeah, italy, that that looked cool yeah that's awesome it looked inspiring. I was one of the things I was. I saw, saw you going through some of the museums, and what did you take home from that trip?
Speaker 4:Tell me about it dude, I don't know, man, I I thought I was going to. You know, obviously I took a bunch of pictures of stuff and I was like, yeah, dude, I'm going to find all these cool shit for reference, which I have a lot of cool stuff was like I, when I the first couple days I was like I'm gonna take photos of everything I think is cool. You know, maybe I could take this into tattooing or painting or something, um, and then I just caught myself like not taking photos and just kind of being like, because I was kind of walking around like my mouth open, just like what the fuck?
Speaker 4:yeah, and then the more shit you just learn like the more you're just like walking around like this is crazy, I don't want to have my phone out, and then I'm like like there's a point where we're like walking over a bridge.
Speaker 4:I went with one of my really good buddies and, um, we're walking over a bridge and I was walking over ahead, like over one of the canals, and uh, I was walking and he's like, hey, jimmy, come back here. And he's all like, he's like come here, check this out. And he points out like a little plaque, like a little size of a business card, like tiny, just on one of the walls, and then there's like a little walkway to a door and it just says this is beethoven's house, like no big deal, you know. And we were like what the fuck, dude? Like we're walking in the shadows of giants, you know like, and every turn I just was like these streets have like gone unchanged through all that time and we're just walking in them right now, like that's pretty crazy, dude yeah, that's a messed up part about over here, you know they just wipe all that shit away right, and they're doing it in stucco so they can wipe it away faster you
Speaker 1:know, what I mean.
Speaker 3:It's like dang man, they don't build things to last or for with architectural intent anymore.
Speaker 4:Yeah I feel like you're walking around there. I could, you could just feel like the vibrations and everything you know, like everything was just vibrating, like even some of like the basilicas we went into. You're just like man, some shit went down in here, boy you know, look at this freaking ground is all jacked up. What did that? What did that? You know?
Speaker 3:Did you draw, did you, did you sketch or do anything out there?
Speaker 4:I sketch, I started, I started some sketches on my way out there, yeah, and then um no. I just yeah and then um no, I just walked around man, you went out at night too it looked like vampires. I was looking at those.
Speaker 3:I was dressing sexy, yeah, you know, yeah, trying to get bit yeah in italy, yeah, looking for vampires, oh dude there was like because all the alleys?
Speaker 4:are tight and foggy yeah it's like vampire city. Well, that's what I thought I don't know.
Speaker 1:I was there, I googled I did have google.
Speaker 4:I said vampire signs in italy, in venice, you know, yeah and uh, there's nothing on there, just like stories but I was like there was like I'd go out at night and just walk around like the alleys by myself and like there was always like an old dude standing by a dock and I was like that's a fucking ghost.
Speaker 1:I felt the same thing about romania. I was, I was, I went through romania um quite a few times. We had a base out there. It was always, always something. I was like something's gonna jump out and it's gonna be here in this, in this crazy country.
Speaker 4:Yeah, dude, because it's like you know, what it is is the history of the history and all the old like fiction books that like I draw like a lot of inspiration from. Yeah, those are the backdrops you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:So like yeah, when I'm thinking about like a vampire story or a painting for a vampire, like I'm picturing that street I was standing in, yeah, and that's from a book, or like a frank, like you know, it looks like frankenstein or some crazy shit and it was like, yeah, that's cool, dude creepy and if you get bit, you're bit yeah yeah, where else would you like to travel to?
Speaker 4:you know, for art oh for art, yeah, I'd like to. I mean, I'd like to go to australia, be tight maybe. Yeah, australia be tight, I don't know. There's a lot of places I think I'd like to go to norway would be cool. Um, japan, I'd be sick. I think I'd have to do it, right, you know, because I don't think I want to be in the middle of all the hustle and bustle. I just want to be in like the cool stuff, you know, like the kind of more outskirtsy stuff. But, dude, honestly, there's like I mean, any of those places anywhere I'll be like, yeah, let's go there.
Speaker 3:I mean, they all sounded good, right yeah.
Speaker 4:Let. I'm pretty easy to like you get me there. I might put up a fight, you know, trying to get there, but you get me there and I'm like I'll have a good time I like to travel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Like seeing tech checkout towns One you guys always do the Philly convention huh.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a fun one. The Philly is tight, dude, that's a crazy place, best city, I think we went to. That convention was cool. It's super big and I tattooed a lot and I sold a lot of paintings, um, but I think walk around the city was like the coolest, because it's the same thing as that stuff, those cities, culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like cobblestone streets and like I feel the east coast has that.
Speaker 4:That slight advantage over the west coast, yeah, is the older stuff, that's the thing I think I noticed over there, because I think that might have been the the oldest usa city I've been in, you know, and uh, that was one of the ones where I was like, oh, this is a shit's like way older than anything that's around us back in on this side of the coast, you know I got a question that's totally off basis, but towards our side of things.
Speaker 3:Do you ever draw at a emotion rather than a subject?
Speaker 4:like, I think everything, I think they're all nestled in some type of emotion. Sure, I think that goes hand in hand.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, and that's uh, do you allow the emotion to evolve within the piece? Or it's like nah, this needs to feel this way yeah, I think.
Speaker 4:I think it always needs to feel like something. Like if I draw something and I don't feel like it's kind of conveying any type of emotion, whatever it is like, I think those are the ones where I'm just like that's not it, that ain't it like it's kind of conveying any type of emotion, whatever it is Like? I think those are the ones where I'm just like that's not it, that ain't it? Like something's off about this thing. It was weird, you know like, and whether it be like there's no drama in it, to create this thing, you know like, or whatever, like there's always gotta be some type of emotion.
Speaker 1:You never really or or.
Speaker 2:If I started painting, I will.
Speaker 1:I'll start, I'll do sketches, you'll do sketches and you'll scrap those.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, cause I'll do rough sketches and usually usually by uh, in the first like iteration of a sketch. If it's usually super loose, I'll know like, I'll know like, oh, that's the direction I'm on, I need to go in, and then I know I just's it. You know, I was talking to somebody, I was talking to my buddy, dave richardson, the other night about that, because there's the. I'll show you guys, but the initial sketch of that unicorn is underneath there, right there, and um, it's super loose and it's super like there's none, no details, nothing in it.
Speaker 4:You know, but I almost go like that's that might be like the best step, you know, because that's almost the hardest hurdle. Like after you get that, after you get the direction going, then I can be like god. Then I just start going nuts and I freaking draw it and I trip out on all this stuff. Yeah, you know, but it's like getting that drawing with emotion in it, and I try to do it for not only my paintings but for tattoos too, you know, because I'm like you know, yeah, you're just gonna put a rose on somebody, but like why can't these leaves look like dramatic and like feel like something like?
Speaker 3:you know, yeah, like something cool or weird or you know yeah, one of the things I think is cool is that you use a lot of color but your shit is never cartoony, you know what I mean. Like, uh, and then you're using the color to develop the story. Yeah, yeah, like that. Yeah, I enjoy that aspect of the art.
Speaker 4:Yeah, even when I go like nuts with colors, I go like, oh, it's because there's definitely pieces. I'll look back and I'm like that's weird that I use that color. I won't even remember sometimes, you know, yeah, I'll just be like that's crazy that I did that.
Speaker 3:But I also think I'm kind of crazy you know, I feel like everybody has to have a different mindset to do what it is that we do because I mean we could all just go get a regular job and like, but what the fuck is, what fun is that you?
Speaker 4:know what I mean. It's not that fun. I'm ruined for regular work.
Speaker 1:Now there's no way there's no way, dude have you ever had any regular jobs or like what's the what's, which one did you really? I've had a lot.
Speaker 4:You know, before illu, I did start tattooing pretty young. Yeah, I had a gang of jobs before. I mean, yeah, I worked at uh. I mean I worked at circle k. I worked, I did plumbing circle k. I worked at uh. I worked at labeta urethane shop when I first moved to California, which is pouring urethane for um, was that ATM click stuff like that Like skate wheels and blade wheels?
Speaker 1:Is it a?
Speaker 4:gang of stuff, but I just don't live, I don't stick around when stuff, when I just don't like it, I go like and I think that's my. I did a detail in for a while, but I think my mom was always like. I remember when I was working at a detail shop, when I still lived back home, I was a teenager and like uh, I was like mom, this fucking guy my my boss at the time's got hair. He's a dick and he was like I was like he's fucking razzing me and he was razzing me because I didn't have a license you know, yeah, I lost it, but uh, he's razzing me and I was just like.
Speaker 4:I was like dude, I fucking hate this guy, mom. She's like do you like working there? I was like nah, and so the next day I went in he's and he's like Jim, clear, fucking guy. And he's like. He's like I just don't even feel like you want to work here, dude.
Speaker 4:And I was like I don't, and he was like you just see him just like, wait, my freaking thing kind of backfired on me and then my buddy that I went to Italy with was with me and he was like, yeah, I don't want to work here either. We just left both quits. We're just like let's go skate, okay?
Speaker 1:so I mean you are for everyone to listen. You're a nice dude man, even like you were really genuine to me the first time. I because I knew of you, yeah, but I'd never been introduced to you, yeah, so you came off amazing. But thanks, man, you said sir, do you have a temper, or is it just that you get agitated and then bounce?
Speaker 4:no, I got a temper, yeah it just takes a lot to get there it's buried in there choose my, choose my. Like uh fights wisely yeah, this guy you know, yeah, he's very good I almost said like I don't like I don't necessarily like lash out, like temper wise very easily, okay, but like I'll lash out temper-wise very easily, I'll lash out and I'll just say something mean or something or hurt someone's feelings or something, and just be calm about it. It just feels better to me if I just go like boom bye.
Speaker 2:But I don't know.
Speaker 4:It takes a lot for me to get mad.
Speaker 3:You don't like confrontation, though you don't like negative shit.
Speaker 4:I think I've gotten better at that. Sure you know what it is. It's like I don't mind confrontation. It's just like I just think that there's like real. I think there's ways to handle it without being like over the top you know what I mean. Like I'll come from, we can talk about whatever you want, but I want to talk about it calmly and then if it gets crazy, I'll just be like this is getting too. There's no information going when emotions are high. Like step back in later you know, right, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm like, let's get the information done, let's move on to the having fun again. I just want to have fun, be silly that's really.
Speaker 1:That's really. Have you always been like that? Have you been emotionally in tune like that?
Speaker 4:I think so. I grew up with a gang of girls. Dude, how many, how many, how many? Sisters Three.
Speaker 1:Oh, I have. I have four sisters, so I get that yeah.
Speaker 4:Maybe that is something it might've been, you know and in the middle of nowhere, so it was like yeah you had to listen to them.
Speaker 1:I didn't want to listen to my sisters. Yeah, a lot of the times, but I had a temper.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I fought, so I fought him a lot. Well, I had a temper then when I was young too, because they were like you know, I had three sisters and they were fucking gang up and yeah, climb on your shoulders shoulders and become like sister.
Speaker 4:Every window in my bedroom was located was broken. You know there's like bb gun holes in the walls and shit, uh, but I would be like that get. And so our house was kind of it was like a trailer, but it's like a double ad with like a little add-on thing and, um, so the kit, the original kitchen, the kitchen was there but it had like a kitchen window. You know that used to open to outside. Yeah, well, that opened into my bedroom, did you?
Speaker 3:jump through there well, vick.
Speaker 4:So if you were in the kitchen, yeah, you could open a window into my bedroom without me being able to control whatsoever, you know, and I put posters over that shit or whatever, but like my sisters, would open it up and just talk shit through that window, you fucking alien they're all upset dude and I would just get away from it and crawl out. I'd just be walking across the desert just fucking angry, going nowhere with my dog.
Speaker 3:I'd be like come on, let's get out of here, dude.
Speaker 4:We're running away, running away, yeah running away, yeah, I don't know. You know, I think I just figured out how to handle it, I guess. And I listen to. You know, I listen to a lot of heavy music. I freaking ride motorcycles, yeah I like to freaking, do other things you know like. So I think there's like a lot of outlets for aggression. I have you know, yeah, I paint shit.
Speaker 4:that's like kind of g outlets for aggression I have you know, paint shit that's like kind of gnarly and sometimes it's like crazy and like that one chopper you had was crazy in itself.
Speaker 3:Which one, the little with the little bunny bars, all raked out that shit was wild.
Speaker 4:That was a death trap. We learned later.
Speaker 3:I'm saying bro, like that right there. It was uh, it was uh. I don't know, it was just ridiculous. It's some shit you don't do unless you be part of that shit like it's like I don't know if you ever ridden a lowrider bike, but you get on one of those motherfuckers, you get to pedaling. You don't like this shit. Literally maybe 12 inches apart, his hands are yeah, they're real tight you know what I mean. No angle man that was crazy.
Speaker 4:There's a springer on the front.
Speaker 3:Really, bouncy, we're gonna upload pictures of all his stuff too, so you guys can get it just real quick gotta be like a tumbleweed man.
Speaker 4:You gotta just like let the wind take your baby.
Speaker 3:What advice cool, don't fight it what advice would you give an artist who's younger and wants to pursue uh art as a career?
Speaker 4:uh, I would say number one is fucking hard. You know, uh, and if you're lazy, you're gonna work more than just working a nine to five. You know, like, if you really want to do it, you'll work all the time. Yeah, um, satisfying, satisfying, and I think, like, just like draw, like physically draw you know what I mean. Like physically draw and let your hand like make stuff, cause, like I don't know, I think if you're physically drawing and you have the human hand on a piece of paper, like all this shit, like just things happen, cool, you know that happened. And like, and you kind of develop your ideas, and if you're just doing that over and over and over again, you'll get to a place where you're doing stuff that you like I think. So I think, just be persistent. Yeah, if you want to be an artist, just be persistent.
Speaker 1:Now more specifically, do you have any advice for a new apprentice coming up?
Speaker 4:Probably similar to this and, with all this being said, I'm like. I'm like not even don't feel like I'm a place to tell anybody like how to learn anything, you know, which is why I've never had an apprentice or anything. I just feel like I'm still like I guess I got way too much shit to learn.
Speaker 1:Um, but uh, which is crazy.
Speaker 4:Ladies and gentlemen 24 years still learning something never satisfied which I think is kind of good too, cause it makes you, keeps you driving. You know it, forces progression, forces progression. You don't want to get complacent in that stuff, like I don't know, it's like a weird thing.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, cause if you continue to work, a month later it will look like dog shit.
Speaker 4:Yeah. You know, if you continue to look you want to look at stuff and be like damn, I drew that hand, like better. Or I drew the freaking, like damn, that body is all tweaked out, but it's like cool, you know what I mean. Like I figured it out how to make like the right way, which I think is just like practice, practice, practice and ipads are great and all, but like I just like, I just feel like there's when I draw on my ipad.
Speaker 4:like I draw on too and I use it for tattooing and stuff. But I just feel like there's something that gets lost. You know, there's like something missing. So like I'll draw, I draw on tracing paper and then I get that idea. Like I said with the unicorn thing, I get that where I'm like that's the direction and then, if it's for a tattoo, that I and then I'll refine it from there.
Speaker 3:That's a heavy choice too, because when you're on paper, still God, it takes so much longer.
Speaker 4:You know it does it's a it's an extra step, but I feel like it develops. Yeah, anytime, I cut that corner there's been times where I'll like look at a drawing and I'll be like damn.
Speaker 3:I wish I could have drawn that again. You know I'm like this or whatever.
Speaker 4:So how you feel about the ai um artists? Now I don't know, I mean same thing. There's no life in it. You know, yeah, it's like it's cool, I mean some of that shit's incredible dude, right badass looking, but I also think it's like it's generated it's fucking generated like uh, little cheesy times.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the npc beat to the instrument.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, sort of like some sweaty fucking drummer doing a beat or something. You know like, uh, yeah, I don't know, because there's tons of shit that I go like, damn, that's pretty crazy badass. But like I'm I, I kind of go like, yeah, but there were painters that worked their whole lives to do learn how to do that. And then, if you know what makes me sad about it's like I don't really care, it doesn't bother. Like people are going to do it, whether you like it or not, and they're gonna. You know they're making amazing things and I know people are losing jobs.
Speaker 4:But more more than anything, I go damn, the guys that are like adopting this as like a work flow, you know doing the ai stuff. I go, man, they're really robbing themselves of like making artistic mistakes and then learning stuff. You know like, damn, they are fucking, they just punched that in there and that's what they made. And like they didn't have to go through any steps of like screwing up an arm or drawing the fucking background or something, or just like making a mess and being like, oh, that shit's a castle, right, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like there's like there's no like discoveries or mistakes and it's like that sucks man which makes me sad and refines the eye and the palate along the way you know, um, when you do your detailed pieces, the reason that it looks good is because all of those mistakes, yeah, all of those mistakes. Putting a woman on a dragon's back, it's hard as fuck. You know what I mean deciding where her leg lies, what's her hand doing, how's her hair flowing, you?
Speaker 4:know, where do you want the hair to flow? Where's the wind going in this thing? Right, weird shit, you know the Reaper's cloak.
Speaker 3:you know that that's one of the hardest things about tattooing is our subject matter. It's all over the fucking place and they look at you and they're just like, yeah, man, go ahead and do work. Yeah, I'll be waiting for my masterpiece.
Speaker 2:Yeah, masterpiece, yeah, um, I find it hard.
Speaker 3:I still rely on um heavy reference to get to my end result. I think that's good, you know. But I'm going to the point where, hopefully, man, like soon, I'll be able to just draw everything from the hand and it's just original you know, what I mean. I've gotten away from tracing. Yeah, you know what I mean for the anatomy and all that type of stuff, um, but I still use reference heavy. But you know that's why I respect the game. You know what I mean dude, that shit's hard man.
Speaker 4:Because it's like reference. I think it's super good to stuff like that, you know, especially like there's certain things where you want reference, for you know what I mean. Like, if you're drawing something that's like japanese inspired, you're like man I should probably look at like a hannya mask or like a japanese dragon, because there's like little things but there's also a lot of room to like kind of like tweak them out and make them unique and stuff like that you know. So I think those references are very it's like you got to build that library and your brain into all yourself and, um, do it from there, because you know, I don't, I don't think you need to draw everything from scratch if it's already done like beautifully a japanese dragon is already perfect.
Speaker 4:They're fucking them. There's like a million perfect ones that are already drawn and you can add your flair to them, you know. So why not look at those ones that are perfect and be like that's why it's a japanese dragon, because it looks like that, you know, but maybe I want longer whiskers, right?
Speaker 3:stylizing art right? Yeah, we talked about your specific style. You're not trying to draw in a different way to be stylish, right are you?
Speaker 2:is it?
Speaker 3:as simple as something like oh I'm just gonna pull this line a little bit further and then do a a loop at the end oh, like consciously doing it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:No, I don't think so. I think it's just the way I draw now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've tried to stylize art like, oh, or push the, push the envelope of art without having the background. Yeah, I'm going to stylize the fuck out of this drawing. Yeah, and then not have the hours of failure. Yeah, To say, ok, this is acceptable, this is acceptable Because that's what style is, is seeing somebody who has failed over and over, who knows that this looks right in this fashion. Well, you got to like, you got to like practice.
Speaker 4:You got to take the chances of pushing something you know far enough and you're going to fall over the edge and many times, until you're like oh, that's the balance right there.
Speaker 4:I know I can make, I can do that move and make that look cool, you know, and yeah. So I think that's like I don't know. I think that's where all that style comes from, or something. Now I don't know. Like I said, I don't really see. I think I'm too close to the cuff to look at this stuff and see it's all stylish or anything right, but like, I just go like, oh, when I look at it, I go like, oh, I drew that you know, like that looks like my drawing like my.
Speaker 4:It's like my signature or something. Looks like my. Looks like I wrote that you know Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, do you have any routines or any spot in this house or even at the shop? Yeah. What unlocks all those creative juices? What gets the thoughts flowing the best?
Speaker 4:Is it the morning cup of coffee.
Speaker 1:What is it for you?
Speaker 4:Sometimes, sometimes I have dreams. I think I've got a crazy kind of. I think I've lived in a life of like imagination. Yeah, like I don't think my imagination ever goes away. It's never stopped. It was just going and going and going. So I think, like when I sit and I get to like kind of sift through the ideas, like I'll sit in my backyard is a big deal Okay.
Speaker 4:I'll sit in my backyard and I'll sit at my drawing table and think, you know, any certain time of day, or usually night time, usually night time, yeah, usually the mornings. I'm thinking more about like, like myself as a character, like what I want to be for that day, you know, I go, hey, dude, we could do this or whatever you know, like, maybe today don't fucking talk so much shit.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean let's do nice, and I'll have my cup of coffee and I mean you set yourself straight. Let's do nice.
Speaker 4:And I'll have my cup of coffee and I'll be like these sons of bitches are in for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I have no idea.
Speaker 4:After being in some minutes.
Speaker 1:That usually cracks me up too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, if I have one too many cups, I'll kick the door open. Yeah, someone's gonna ask day what's up? I was like what's wrong?
Speaker 2:with that shirt what are you talking about?
Speaker 4:yeah, yeah you just wearing pajamas today. But yeah, I think, dude, honestly, all day long my imagination is going fucking nuts like all day. It's kind of crazy and it's it's a lot to handle. I think a lot of times I'm constantly like making up freaking weird scenarios. When I'm at starbucks drive-thru I'll be like, yeah, what if that lady reaches out to grab her coffee and she's got like a fucking dragon arm, that'd be weird, right, you know, like something that's just constant, it's just constant yeah, you know yeah, okay, that's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 2:Like, are you like?
Speaker 3:are you thinking of these things? That's your constant.
Speaker 4:Okay, okay, yeah, that's what I want, yeah yeah and then I, you know, then I take that later or something. I'll come up with something later and like okay I try to make that shit happen.
Speaker 3:These are thoughts inside of your brain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, right, yeah, for sure. So that's what I'm trying to get to like. Do you kick a theme like oh, today I'm gonna fucking draw a fucking lady right in the face. No like he drained that shit the fuck up. I feel like it took an hour of us grilling to him and he threw it that's crazy right. Ro, I'm looking at it now like damn now I see it from, not from your perspective, but I see it from, not from your perspective, but I see it from a whole new perspective.
Speaker 4:now, dude, it's just a runaway train of ideas and I just got to wrangle them in and figure it out, you know.
Speaker 3:I dig it.
Speaker 4:Cats or dogs Do I like better? Yeah, animal, all animals.
Speaker 1:Okay, except for turkeys. Fuck turkeys, oh turkeys.
Speaker 3:Turkeys, turkeys, turkeys.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I got a turkey, oh yeah, and then we had two turkeys at my parents house when I was a kid too, and like we couldn't walk out to the car without a stick worst birds man they'll come at you.
Speaker 2:Turkeys suck roosters.
Speaker 3:I enjoy watching people get fucked up by geese and roosters little kids trying to run away. I love that.
Speaker 4:I enjoy watching people get fucked up by geese and roosters, like, but they, they're just agile, a little kid trying to run away and shit. I love that. I love cats and cats and dogs and this shit. Well, you draw more cats than you do dogs. Well, yeah, and I had cats, so it's all. It depends what's going on. You know, like I forget, when I was doing those all those big cat paintings, I had cats.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay, I had two cats and you know that was my thing and I had like a real short amount of time to get for an art show. I had to paint like a bunch of pieces for the car show.
Speaker 2:I was like I'm just going to do a fucking gang of cats weird cats, and so I drew all those big ass weird ones.
Speaker 3:How do you approach an art show? I've never had a soul art show.
Speaker 4:How do you approach that, do you, is it? I'm going to finish two paintings a month until this day. Um, is it? I'm? Here we go. Yeah, it's just like here we go. Let's stay up late every night and just keep going. Like I said, once the ball's rolling, I'm like I want to keep it rolling. You know how long do you paint at night? Like god dude. If I'm working on a piece like I'll have to put, I have to make myself go to bed.
Speaker 4:Oh shit, I'll be like dude, it's four I gotta yeah, you know, that's tight, like I gotta go to bed and I've tried to paint in the morning, but like I don't know, I like the nighttime man, you know there's something about it like you can't go to the store, you can't fucking do anything. It's quiet, everybody's sleeping, no one's trying to call you. You know what I mean. It's quiet, yeah, like the air. Yeah, I like the darkness. It feels good. Would you describe your art? Dark, yeah, probably dark. Romantic, I think, is what I like to balance, you know.
Speaker 3:Okay, talk to me, talk to me romantic. So you all, right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it'll be like darkly romantic.
Speaker 3:I think that's cool I do get love story, I do get drama, I do get heartbroken. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Like any of those, like any of those, like any of those warrior things or any other shit. It's all like some love story plus fighting. It's cool, you know do you put on?
Speaker 1:do you put yourself in those shoes at all? Probably yeah. Do you like you? Are you a hopeless romantic or do you? Do you like that? That idea of the, of the, of the, the night going after going?
Speaker 4:after the lady. I think that, yeah, I think that's really cool, I think that's super cool man.
Speaker 3:He's a lover. You know what I'm saying you get that too. Ladies and gentlemen, you don't hit my boy Jim up.
Speaker 2:Nah man.
Speaker 3:I'm looking at the pieces on the wall. I've never seen you draw a whimpering woman, a woman that's not powerful either yeah, well, I got a lot of powerful women around right, right, that's dope. You know I'm this is all coming out now.
Speaker 4:Um, and my mom, my sisters, are all strong women.
Speaker 3:It's cool, yeah I like the medieval flair on there. I like the drama, the contrast between two soft and hard. You know what I mean. Yeah, I really enjoy that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I like that too. I like that balance of like I don't know, I think that shit's cool, dude. Like I like there was a minute I was drawing all that's what those two girls are from too. Like I was drawing all these like, uh, like dragon slayer, kind of like ladies, you know, and I was like, I like that where they're like like. Those are just. They're just like classic fashion model poses, you know.
Speaker 3:But, like you know, their gowns are blue yeah yeah, that's what I look at the piece I'm like okay, yeah well, those are.
Speaker 4:Those two are a good example too of uh, so that's, those two have a third. That's like hanging on the wall right here, this girl on the horse, and there's kind of a complete story. Like those two are like hunting her and if you notice, like them two, their, their dresses are all bloody from the top down and that, but there's bullet holes around them. So they're, those are the two hunters and they're hunting her. That's on this horse over here, yeah, and if you look at her, um, her clothes isn't bloody but her boots are red and she's got a gun, so she's like shooting back at them. Yeah, you know what I mean? I don't know. I was like that's a cool dynamic. They're like hunting, but like who's badder?
Speaker 1:dude, I don't know. Yeah, you got a movie going on in your own home. Yeah, with the art. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. There with all his characters and shit.
Speaker 4:That's crazy, cass, I go. Oh, I hate that. Now to the next one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's cool man, let's go to the next thing. This is exactly why I wanted to come here. It's because, I knew it would be exactly like this and I really wanted to tap in and like it's hard to get shit from you.
Speaker 1:But now I got a microphone on you.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. So it's like yeah.
Speaker 4:I think a lot of times like my mouth runs can run a little slower than my brain, you know, and so like it's hard to kind of verbalize things sometimes. But I've always mentally prepared to do this Cause like straight, not crazy.
Speaker 1:I've always thought that you were don't freak it out.
Speaker 3:Don't freak out the crazy picky on others people's art. Yeah, about when you give a compliment. Yeah, yeah, motherfucker. Yeah, yeah, this dude is picky, yeah, like, and it it kind of like jim won't really fuck with if you don't put in the art and you call yourself an artist, man, he will like yeah, I think this is there's like a certain amount of genuineness that you gotta freaking and not just be like, um, I hate, just coasting, I hate him and dave richardson relationship for that, because it's like two wizards that do spells together and you want to go see the spells.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, but you're not a wizard yet. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:You're still a wizard in training, that's the thing me and dave richardson, like you know, we got yeah, we are, we do things like that and that's most. If anybody's over at my house at late at night, kind of crashes here sometimes like he'll, like he'll, just you know, hey, let's have a hangout night and fucking talk, and that's what the whole night will be like.
Speaker 4:Well, yeah, well, look at this fucking weirdo dude was drawing centipedes with arms and and we're like it just goes and goes and goes and over y'all check out dave richardson too.
Speaker 3:Man, he's another fucking wizard um who doesn't get nearly enough fucking credit for his tattoos for how much he produces, man.
Speaker 4:That guy has a shit ton of drawings, do you think?
Speaker 3:that hurts an artist sometimes, you know, because you guys aren't playing into the the trend of tattooing, you know like yeah, I think so, man, dave dave.
Speaker 4:I was like looking through his like he's got like a digital flashbook that no one, no one has access to except for him, you know, and I'm just like, yeah, you gotta put this online. Like there's so much good stuff in here. There's like cyber babes and like all this crazy, like buff fucking women and like dudes with no arms.
Speaker 2:You know, like weird stuff original, original continent like andron yeah, and people.
Speaker 3:They don't respect it how they should anymore and it drives me nuts it's almost like true artistry is becoming the backpack version of rap. You know, it's like all the mcs in rap like are the backpack guys, the guys, the gritters?
Speaker 1:you know KRS one.
Speaker 2:Jay.
Speaker 3:Dilla, you know what I mean, but they've never gotten that full respect because they didn't. They didn't diddy out you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 4:They didn't you know what I'm saying? Totally, man, yeah, they, they, yeah, they did the work and then other people took like their work and freaking made it flashier, whatever I wish art would change in that way a little bit too, man, because I think there's a lot of badass people doing cool shit that, uh, that aren't getting seen enough. You know, yeah, and like you know, there's a lot of stuff being seen that's just like not that cool it's, it's really not yeah, and it's a lot of it's redone.
Speaker 3:It's just a lot of it's redone yeah, so it's you know so original content like and the reason it's redone is because it's hard as fuck, yeah, to create original content from the head and make it look aesthetically pleasing, I don't give a fuck, I feel like it should be hard.
Speaker 4:You know that shit should not be easy.
Speaker 3:I will draw on something for a long time because I want it to be long lasting. I don't want it.
Speaker 4:I've seen your stuff like take leaps and bounds and bounds over drawings and I'm like damn damn good job, brandon.
Speaker 4:That's tight, you know, yeah, and I, like you said like I don't mean to not give out compliments all the time, it's just like I just feel like I'm like always looking at artwork, so maybe it's just all in my head that I'm just like looking at stuff, looking at stuff, and usually when I'm looking like why did? And then my brain goes like, well, why do you like that, you know, and like, and I'll like look across the whole thing, and I'm like, well, you know that that face is like kind of normal. That's cool though, but then I'll be like, oh, you know what it is.
Speaker 3:Is that her fingers are like kind with your critiques and you know like you ain't gonna put nobody down, but you're not dead. You're not gonna give them the attention either until they show themselves.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm not in the, I'm not in the market or in the business of like hurting, but I like if people are creating, that's cool, that's tight, I like that you know, everybody should make something, and it's not gatekeeping, but it's it's holding a level it's holding.
Speaker 3:You know. Yeah, yeah, it's a respect thing. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:I don't know how to to convey it completely, but I I thoroughly enjoyed it, because then when I do get like, oh yeah, that's dopey, yeah, it's genuine, rather than somebody just giving me some, some fluff yeah you know like oh, I'm being built, like well, I try to be conscious, like I said earlier, like I try to maybe as I get older too, I try to be conscious of, like, what kind of information am I putting in my head? And like, what am I adding to this weird library of skills and stuff that maybe I don't think about? I was talking to, actually, I was talking to dave richardson about this the other day because I was like telling him that I had to replace the door handle on my fucking truck, right, and I said I said I replaced that thing. It took me an hour and like an hour, and I was like that is like not a skill I need in my brain and now I know how to do that and I'm like what I don't want?
Speaker 1:your hard drive in my brain having how to replace the door handle of your truck.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know, I mean, that's on YouTube, don't be in my brain. I want to save that for something cooler, you know? Really, yeah, that's cool so. I go like I got to be conscious about like okay, what am I holding on to here?
Speaker 1:Was there ever a critique or criticism that still sticks with you? Oh, I knew it. I knew it. That's possible. We're on the same wavelength.
Speaker 4:I was like a juxtapose, the magazine show, right, and they were like taking submissions from certain people and so I sent a little thing. And they're like, oh, this is cool, dude. Like they're like I'll send us, uh, the pieces that you would want to put in for this. And I was like, okay, so I sent them all these things. And they were like werewolf hands and like freaking this, you know, and like all these like and they're like one of them was all green and then the out the backgrounds had these weird, like kind of art nouveau frames with like buildings in them and stuff like that. And uh, the lady sent me back and she was just like, or the person whoever was to send me back, and they just said like. They said, yeah, we're gonna probably pass on your stuff, but, um, they're like because we think your borders are much cooler than like the main topic of your of like you know,
Speaker 3:it was just like rough, you know, and at the time I was like what the fuck?
Speaker 4:I was kind of like pacing around. I was like who doesn't like a werewolf hand dude? You know what I mean? I'm like there's got like a fucking suit on. He's like cool. You know, it's like weird. Just my own like ego or brain, whatever. And um, now I have those pieces still and I look at them I go, ah, the borders are the coolest part of this fucking thing you know, okay, yeah. So I kind of look at it and I go like, yeah, that could have been cooler and one of those failure moments where you feel
Speaker 2:not a failure moment, cause you felt like it was good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but now you look at your old work and you notice you're better. So this is what we're talking about the refinement. You know, you know it was like.
Speaker 4:It was like I think that's probably been a give or take with me forever. It's like how much window I got to know when to hold back thing. Yeah, for me like I gotta go, like I gotta stop messing with this thing before I ruin it, you know damn, jim, this has been good.
Speaker 3:Hey, have you? Have you watched any of the episodes? Um, have you tapped in any? Yeah, dude, okay, yeah, I listen to zach.
Speaker 4:So listen to uh brands, I listen to mike's hell yeah, I was telling zach that I freaking liked all those man. They're cool good yeah, you guys did a good job of uh just getting to everybody's site yeah, people are, they're asking and they're enjoying everybody.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean? Uh, they, they want peacock. You know they, they won't because they want you. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 4:yeah, I feel like those those episodes I feel like I learned some stuff about my friends. I didn't know and it's deep right. Yeah, and I said I was listening. I was like I had a little notebook. I said I'm gonna make fun of that later.
Speaker 1:Is there any other friends you want to send on you, let us know. We'll do it offline. You'll be like I'm going to interview this dude right here.
Speaker 2:I want to know his secrets yeah.
Speaker 4:No, they've been killer man. He gets his episodes. I'm good, I'm psyched to be part of this Hell yeah, man. Hopefully, you know I'm doing enough, I don't know. Ah, dude.
Speaker 3:I ain't enough. Hopefully we're doing enough.
Speaker 1:I hope. That's why I'm conveying the message.
Speaker 3:You know this is part of my fucking. You, motherfuckers ain't paying attention. They ain't paying attention because there's still some dope shit out here Within this world we're living in, there, within this world we're living in.
Speaker 3:There's still core individuals out here doing dope shit living by a different code, not fucking cutting corners on the artistry you know what I mean and the embodiment of what it is that they believe in. And you're hearing it, man, and you know I'm patting myself on the back a little bit too, just because, like, yeah, motherfucker this is the homie.
Speaker 4:Jim, this dynamic works good, like it's got. It's a good dynamic. You keep things moving. I like it. That was my only concern. I don't know how to verbalize stuff in my head, but you guys are easy to talk to, so it makes it nice and you keep it moving, which is nice. I need that help sometimes because I could go off on some tangent yeah, you ever fucking collect earthworms, laughter, laughter, laughter, laughter, laughter, laughter man yeah, yeah, you ever fucking collect earthworms every episode we do a section of the episode.
Speaker 3:It's called a roundup. Okay, um, uh, you could give us a quote. If you could give us a quote about something that you live by, yeah, that embodies you, uh, what would your quote be?
Speaker 4:I thought about this because you said that I found my quote okay and I really like it okay. Yeah, yeah, I like this and I'm fucking.
Speaker 4:You know I'm silly and I I like being silly, but this is like important, you know. Yeah, I think there's also more to it, but I think this is cool. I wrote my quote down, right? Okay, I'm gonna. I'll read the quote first and then I'll tell you what great philosopher it's by. Okay, all right. It says you can't fake the funk of the nasty dunk, and that's by great mind, shaquille o'neal my bad big shit big shit big shit, you can't fake the funk or the nasty dunk hey shout out Shaq.
Speaker 3:Man, you know, shout out Shaq.
Speaker 4:I love Shaq. I actually love Shaq. I know that seems weird.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I forget the don't fake the funk, y'all or the nasty dunk or the nasty dunk and I was like I think that's super funny to say and it rolls off your tongue. It's nice, yeah. But it also is because I said I said okay, when you love what you do and bring a genuine energy to your work, everyone knows it. If you're a real deal when you're going through the motions, they know that too, you know. So it's like don't fake, don't do it and fake it, you know yeah be real, be genuine.
Speaker 1:See, I was gonna fuck with you. I thought that came from the, that era, the, the jersey era, but then you put some real shit behind that, yeah, and you just, yeah, you turned it into something really beautiful man like a fucking scholar, yeah you're a great balance of fucking craziness, fun and intelligence.
Speaker 3:Thanks, man. So you're yin and yang. Yeah, me and zach. You know we've really enjoyed all our guests. Good, um, you're our last guest for this season, so this ends season one. We wanted to go out with a bang. We got Zach Peacock over here filming with the footage. We got Brian Brixton over here in the background shooting some stuff too.
Speaker 1:We brought out the heavy hitters. This shit is about to look crazy.
Speaker 4:I appreciate all you guys coming together for whatever this ends up being.
Speaker 3:This is from me and Zach, go ahead and open that up real quick.
Speaker 1:I needed an envelope, so we tried to do. I'm going to explain it, because you're opening it and you'll be like what the fuck? Your actual gift hasn't gotten here yet. It's still being made what?
Speaker 2:is it?
Speaker 3:So you're getting something custom and I showed you the.
Speaker 1:I just printed, getting some custom and I showed you the. I just I just printed out some stickers and I printed out the um, uh, the design.
Speaker 4:What? What'd you guys yeah oh shit.
Speaker 1:What is this? That's a. That's going to be a custom made belt buckle.
Speaker 4:That's fucking cool.
Speaker 1:I saw you there dude, you fuck with belt buckles and that's that's a cool style, that I dig as well, that's cool man. Yeah, so it's gonna be custom made um by molly silver this is tight. They're out of texas yeah yeah, so when it gets here. When it gets here, I'll bring it right to you yeah, thank you, dude.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that. Send a picture of your waist, I will.
Speaker 4:You guys gonna be like now, do it with pants and a shirt on.
Speaker 2:Yeah just the belt and the muscle that's just the way it's going to go for that day.
Speaker 1:Jim got the thinnest shirts ever.
Speaker 3:His shirts be so damn thin. Jim will not throw away a shirt.
Speaker 1:This guy is Mr Vintage over here might be getting on his knee you don't wear a collar shirt without an undershirt, you don't wear a collar shirt without an undershirt.
Speaker 3:You don't wear a button-up shirt.
Speaker 2:He'd be like nah, it's cool, yeah, it's cool, I love it, you know people are too scared to be sexy these days.
Speaker 1:I show a little skin. It's fine, dude.
Speaker 4:See-through shirt. When did that go out of style?
Speaker 2:People were wearing mesh shirts.
Speaker 1:All the time I'm saying you know, People talk shit about my short shorts too. That's why I got my legs super tacky. A midriff shirt I don't mind a midriff shirt.
Speaker 3:All the homies like what they like you feel me. Like oh, you guys are some particular motherfuckers about your shit.
Speaker 4:Hardcore. I'll be standing there. You'll be like Jim, you ever going to get your back done.
Speaker 2:I'm like oh, yeah, yeah, you sweating guys like, nah, yeah, like just ran, but thank you, jim, so much for coming on, for having me.
Speaker 4:This is tight.
Speaker 3:I hope you guys have enjoyed season one. I want to give. Let Jim get the last word and just go ahead and take us out, jim yeah, alright, thanks for having me.
Speaker 4:You guys, this has been a beautiful episode here on Love Sandwich.