Embark on an intimate odyssey with Brian Foster, a tattoo virtuoso and Elizabeth Street Tattoo proprietor, whose life story is the stuff of legend—from his days in the armed forces to his battles in the MMA ring. Alongside, we unravel the tapestry of connections that define the tattooing fraternity, a world where artistry and comradeship intertwine. Brian's unguarded revelations about his advocacy for mental health and the visceral appeal of combat sports paint a vivid portrait of a man who has continually sought authenticity in an ever-changing landscape.
Turning the spotlight to the intricacies of tattooing, we traverse the shift from versatile trade to niche specializations. In conversation with Brian, we dissect the impact of this transformation on both the artists and their patrons, highlighting the importance of mentorship and the ongoing pursuit of innovation. The dialogue flows into a deeper exploration of what constitutes happiness, as we share mutual respect for the art, and probe the boundaries of life's rich pageant.
As we fold the chapter on this arresting dialogue, we leave you with reflections on the bittersweet symphony of life: the sting of loss, the resonance of friendship, and the many shades of grief. Brian's journey is a testament to the human spirit's capacity to find balance amid chaos, to seek solace in art, and to carve a path toward a fulfilling and examined existence. This isn't just an episode about tattoos; it's an invitation to consider the imprints we all leave on the world.
Embark on an intimate odyssey with Brian Foster, a tattoo virtuoso and Elizabeth Street Tattoo proprietor, whose life story is the stuff of legend—from his days in the armed forces to his battles in the MMA ring. Alongside, we unravel the tapestry of connections that define the tattooing fraternity, a world where artistry and comradeship intertwine. Brian's unguarded revelations about his advocacy for mental health and the visceral appeal of combat sports paint a vivid portrait of a man who has continually sought authenticity in an ever-changing landscape.
Turning the spotlight to the intricacies of tattooing, we traverse the shift from versatile trade to niche specializations. In conversation with Brian, we dissect the impact of this transformation on both the artists and their patrons, highlighting the importance of mentorship and the ongoing pursuit of innovation. The dialogue flows into a deeper exploration of what constitutes happiness, as we share mutual respect for the art, and probe the boundaries of life's rich pageant.
As we fold the chapter on this arresting dialogue, we leave you with reflections on the bittersweet symphony of life: the sting of loss, the resonance of friendship, and the many shades of grief. Brian's journey is a testament to the human spirit's capacity to find balance amid chaos, to seek solace in art, and to carve a path toward a fulfilling and examined existence. This isn't just an episode about tattoos; it's an invitation to consider the imprints we all leave on the world.
Good morning, good morning, good morning. This is Zach Bautista with B2Z Podcast. I'm here with my co-host Brandon. Good morning everybody, good morning and a very special guest the owner of Elizabeth Street Tattoo, brian Foster.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh man, this is already feeling too official Too official let's get official real quick.
Speaker 1:We'll drop off real fast. Yeah, let's get official. Yeah, let's get it out as far as we go.
Speaker 4:Damn, this is getting serious.
Speaker 2:Enough of that, enough of that.
Speaker 1:You did a great introduction for Zach Peacock downstairs and I was thinking along the same lines of giving you that big introduction.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But I almost think there's too many awards to list off.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, I thought about that too and I was like he's not really going to like it if I just go down the laundry list of things. You guys are going to have to do your research. But this man right here, his resume is absolutely insane. Do some LinkedIn research on this brother. You won't find me Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can find him.
Speaker 2:Today we have Brian Foster, tattooer, shop owner, previous MMA fighters, previous special forces, military mental health guru. For my perspective, he's one of the individuals I call on when I'm having my worst moments, and he sometimes helps me out. You know what I mean and I thank him for that. I'm very excited to be here. Me and Brian have had, once again, good days and bad days. You feel me. He's seen me at my lowest, he's seen me at my highest. I've seen him at his lowest and I've seen him at his highest, too, or at highest points. So I'm excited to bring you guys Brian Foster. Let's get into it.
Speaker 1:How long have you been a shop owner now?
Speaker 3:Let's see, well, I'm turning 50 this year, no shit, and I know I'm so handsome when you look at me, it's hard for you to imagine that this is 49.
Speaker 3:I was about 14 years old when I got into tattooing. I walked into my first tattoo shop at about age 14. I helped as a shop helper open a tattoo shop when I was about 16 and a half 17, uh, with no ambition to be a tattooer at all, like I was full on joining special forces in the military at that point in my life, which I ended up doing, and that was that was marsauk, correct, yeah, marsauk, yeah, um, and so I've been running tattoo shops and figuring them out and understand the dynamics of them since I was a little kid, uh, and then I put I I don't count that as my tattoo career, you know, even though I messed with a tattoo machine and tattooed some of my friends back then, but I don't consider that like part of my tattoo career and so my actual tattoo career that like part of my tattoo career.
Speaker 4:And so my actual tattoo career starts 27 years ago, so when I was after the military, I don't know.
Speaker 3:My early 20s, that's when I had gotten out of the military.
Speaker 3:Uh, you know, didn't know what to do with my life, that whole thing going on there and, uh, I had my resumes out to different departments to go take another job there and wear another uniform the rest of my life. And every time, like I came a little farther down that hiring process, I'd back out because I was still kind of tattooing on the side, because it was either that or work at home depot, you know, and I was like I'd rather be tattooing with my boys, right, right, uh, and I'm, I'm forever grateful to a man named Don Armstrong. People that have been around long enough will know him as Tattoo Don, and that's the guy who taught me and, you know, he's the one that brought me in a long time ago. And so when I got out of the military he was like hey, come to learn come learn to tattoo like this is the fun life.
Speaker 3:And I was still like I'm like a military guy man, I don't do that, but you see what ended up happening. So, like I'm like a military guy man, I don't do that, but you see what ended up happening. So answer your question more directly about 24 years I've been running a tattoo shop and owning it and paying the bills your mentor.
Speaker 2:Was he a heavy mentor? Was he a light mentor? What kind of style of tattooer was he?
Speaker 3:great question. Uh, I'm. I consider it luck, but I'm lucky enough to come in at the very tail end of like real biker shop tattooing. We're like if you were 20, you're a little bit on edge to walk into some of these shops. You know, like you might get fucked up in there. Like plain and simple, a tattoo shop that I first like worked at as a you know I'll loosely call it an apprenticeship you know I wasn't there to really learn to tattoo but I learned a shit ton about tattooing like that was a biker shop and if your skin had any color in it you didn't come into that shop.
Speaker 2:Like this is plain and simple, and is this the one that was in merino valley? Uh-huh, whoa, was it all white before before?
Speaker 3:that it was in san bernardino. Oh wow, like that, little click, little clique worked in San Bernardino at a fucking pretty hood shop, right. And then that's back when I'm 14, so I don't 14, 15, I don't know what the hell happened there, but I walked in there one time with my mom and was like, oh shit, I'm not supposed to be in this motherfucking place. That's cool. Yeah, so it was a split off of an old San Bernardino shop that opened here and you did a traditional apprenticeship two years and.
Speaker 3:No, there was none of that. It was. You were allowed to come in the shop. That was the part of your tattoo apprenticeship, like the door was open for you, uh huh. You know only because the family members, like my parents, knew that tattooer and helped him out a lot, and so he helped me out okay, and the helping out wasn't like here's how a tattoo machine works, here's how to do artwork.
Speaker 3:There was no artwork, no art. Like like none, like just copied shit off the wall. Like other artists or tattooers would draw shit and we'd copy that. Or you know, we had flash on the wall. That's all the way back to the early 1900s, like we actually copied that. That's what people walked in and got um, you didn't and the first part of my tattoo days like you didn't even ask to change the tattoo from the size it was on the wall, you'd walk in and it's on the wall and it says 50 bucks.
Speaker 3:You were like, yeah, I'll take that for 50 bucks and like, wherever that fit on your body at that size is how it was done. And so I was allowed to be in the shop and I was the guy that would just have to like if someone walked in, none of the tattooers wanted to deal with them. I'd have to walk out there and you know, basically get them to leave. You know, just tell them I were too busy or whatever. Like you can't be here.
Speaker 3:So when you, you, you became a tattooer and then you went to the military. No, I was, I just apprenticed at that shop, like I just I just hung out at that shop for like a year and a half, two years, um, and I learned a ton about tattooing, because back then the apprentice stretched the skin, okay, you know so I'd sit there for hours and just stretch the fucking skin for the tattooer when I look back look back about this shit.
Speaker 3:I'm like those motherfuckers man, but I would just sit there and I'm like 16, 17 and hours to sit there and stretch the skin. Hands are sore at the end of the day, you know. And then, like you, also did all the cleanup duties, and so if there were some hookers that took too much blow and fucking, puked all over the bathroom you just cleaned that up.
Speaker 3:That was just part of your quote-unquote apprenticeship. And then, every once in a while you get this little dot, this little like jewel of information that, when I look back, was just crap information, you know. But they would just tell you something about the difference between a liner and a shader tattoo machine. You'd be like okay, or you'd get the solder needles together for him. You know like yeah, that was the apprenticeship.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I didn't want to do that the rest of my life.
Speaker 3:So when I had 17 and a half is about when my bootcamp day came up. Like I said, adios, and you know it's off to the military for some years, and how years did you do with the military? My military career career can get a little hard to track.
Speaker 3:it's five years active duty and then I got out then I had an mma career and then I got to the very top of that and I'm fighting with all the ufc fighters. You know, and uh, I'm watching the ufc get really big during this time, and when I started fighting, there's no money involved. There was a couple of small purses around the world for like two grand or something like, but no one fought for money. That was not a thing. You know. We're talking like UFC two is going on. That was the birth of cage fighting right there and so we fought for fun. Man, I'm still that guy.
Speaker 2:I'll throw down with any three of you guys right now for the fun of it.
Speaker 1:I see you Go get those wild eyes over here.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I always did when I would work here is Brian would tell me a story. I'd be like, oh man that's not me, you would never do that to me. I'm a grown man. There's no way you could fucking do that to me, yeah, and then you know, a week later he'd come and he'd wrap me up or I'd be like, no, I want to spar with you, and we go to the house and we sparred and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:It's real, guys, it's very real.
Speaker 1:I'm always looking for what's your specialty of choice, like fighting more of a ground guy, or are you a muay thai?
Speaker 2:because, because the uh the marines are good question.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm just curious too you don't stand a chance, I'll just. You can't get me to fight nowadays unless we're training. I don't have a favorite style. I like the rawness of thinking of humans as animals and, like you know, for whatever reason for whatever reason, like the world, nature, god, you know.
Speaker 3:For whatever reason. For whatever reason. Like the world, nature, god, the universe, like whatever you want to call it, is chaotic. Like I don't like that about the way nature is, but everything on this planet eats something else. Everything here kills something to stay alive. I don't care if you're a vegetarian. Like when you walk across the grass, you're killing hundreds of thousands of microorganisms. When you boil water, you're killing things. You know. Like there's so much research out, it's basically a fact that plants can communicate, trees communicate with each other. They have their own emotional structures. Like it's really weird when you dive into that area, but so you could be a vegetarian. But when you pull the carrot out of the ground, like the ones next to it know that's happening. Like somehow our science has now been able to prove that. So you're killing that carrot when you pull it out of the ground. Like that's whatever. This is that we're experiencing. This life is chaotic and it's it's not fair, it's mean, it's aggressive a lot of times. I hope that our human consciousness can take us past that one day, but that's not the real world that I live in and so, on an animal level.
Speaker 3:I like to fight, you know, and so the most rare form of fighting to me is two dudes, bare knuckles, standing toe to toe, like that's my favorite fight. Yeah, there's some old pride videos of two guys like grabbing the back of each other's head and just standing there pounding each other like I don't know what that is in me that gets excited about that. Yeah, you know, like I kind of almost think it's wrong, a little bit like I wish this universe didn't have that craziness to it, but it does. And so, like a train wreck, I just want to see two dudes get in the ring and fucking throw down. Now our fighting is kind of evolved past that.
Speaker 3:You know, like I love jujitsu. I love if I'm. When I'm bringing up a new fighter, I wanted them to be a wrestler first. You know we could go into all those different parts about fighting, but just two dudes going toe-to-toe like that's my favorite thing. Um, so stand up is my favorite. And next would be like ground and pound and maybe third jujitsu, if that's how we're, you know, breaking all of fighting down into only three categories.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it sounds like you're saying like do you appreciate the heart? Of a fighter more than the technique of a fighter 100%. Yeah, yeah, out of all the fighters that you've fought over the years, who had the biggest heart? Who's the guy that was like man, this motherfucker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he won't quit.
Speaker 3:He's tough. That's where we get into a bigger problem with brian foster, and that's that. I don't have that in me. I don't think someone's better than me in the fight world like I'll fight anybody like so when you're, it doesn't matter who they are.
Speaker 4:It's not a thought, that's not something that registers for you.
Speaker 2:I've trained with some dudes that I can't believe how tough they are.
Speaker 3:But yeah, like.
Speaker 4:I'm always like ah.
Speaker 1:I got that, I'll get you next time Look who my main training partner is Dan Henderson. You know if anybody knows anything in the fight world.
Speaker 3:if anyone listening to this knows the fight world like that's my main training partner, listening to this knows the fight world like that's my main training partner, I don't think you find anybody in this world.
Speaker 2:That's tougher than him, no, and those training sessions are intense. I can vouch for that he would come to. He was training him for uh, vandal a silva vandal a silva was a good fight we had a rough training for that one and brian was coming in and he, you know, he was like messing with a little bit. He was dealing with nose problems, so he was kind of trying to stop, but Dan needed him.
Speaker 2:So he was getting back in there and stuff like that. Am I right? Yeah, and he would come in and his face would just be fucked up and I'd be like damn B. And I'd ask him, b, is that shit worth it? And you know it's his homeboy, so yes, it's worth it. But you know, in the grand scheme he ended up getting a surgery later and kind of has slowed down.
Speaker 4:But the fighting world is a very intense world.
Speaker 2:I don't think people see that aspect of the training and how brutal it is to get to that level of mastery in the fighting world. You know the physical elements that you physical elements that you receive on a daily basis. Just training were absolutely nuts the same was with Strickland too. That was the last dude, you were.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've trained a lot with Sean Strickland too. He's a champ now. He's great. I'm so happy to see him as the champ.
Speaker 2:I remember you were back in the day when you were talking about training with me. You were like man, he's good, this dude is good, you know, and for you to say something like that he's got to be fucking good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he, along with other people, are what we're seeing in the evolution of fighting, where, you know, at the ground, part of it it is these two just animals going at it. But we're seeing so much sophistication happen in fighting now that you know it's really enjoyable to watch a fight with someone like sean strickland finding someone else. That's like that because you have humans now that from you know I'm not exactly sure what age for each one, but from really young, you know, like from under 10 years old, like they're watching a really hardcore chess match happen you know where. Well, when I was 10 and we were watching GI Joe, you know, and and and fake wrestling, you know, and we were watching karate masters on TV and we thought you could just come out from the corner and sweep the knee and, you know, break the opponent's kneecap.
Speaker 3:You know, and so so we watched the. You know and so we watched. You know you just watch the UFC's career path and you can watch how fighting has evolved. You know, in the early UFC's we used to have David versus Goliath. You know we'd have 260 pound guy against 160 pound guy. Yeah, and sometimes you know, like the 160, 180 pound guy would not. Sometimes a lot of times back then the little guy would beat the big guy up because of technique. That doesn't happen anymore because everyone, even at this chess match of fighting, and so they have a crazy amount of skills and they're doing things that we haven't seen before. You know, like I've been training with strickland and have him come out of nowhere with some kick or punch that I just am like heading this way hey yo, john, time out, like what was that? Like that, I just am like heading into this like, hey yo, john, timeout, like what was that?
Speaker 3:Like that's not possible. What you just did to me. So you're getting to see that evolution in fighting right now.
Speaker 1:We know the, so now I know the why, the why you, you like it so much. What? What was the how, how, how did you, how'd you get into it? Was it, was it Dan? Did he bring you into training and everything? Or was that just something you wanted to do?
Speaker 3:For me personally, I have been fighting since I was a little kid. You know we can go into the psychology behind that. Like it's probably. I don't want that to sound like a good thing, because one of my observations with the world right now is like everyone wants to be super alpha and super tough and talk shit to everybody and like that's the easy way out of things like showing love and compassion and being nice to the other humans that are all here experiencing the totality of life that we're experiencing. Like fucking be nice to each other.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, like holy shit, like think about it or we're all growing old, you know, and like it's hard to understand that when you're 20 but you start to watch your body not work, or you look at your parents and your grandparents and the people around you and you we're all old and like that kind of sucks, you know, like we're here to watch. You know that happened. You're going to get sick, everyone's going to get sick. That'll probably kill you in the end. Like no matter what happens, that's going down, like you're going to get sick and die. That's a hard pill to swallow, so we tend to ignore that. And then you know there's a top of that, we're all going to die. You don't ignore that though.
Speaker 3:No, I don't. It brings my reality and my presence on this earth to be more real. Like I feel like I'm, in a way, more real space in my life right now than I was when I was 20 and 30 and running around with guns, shooting at people and doing MMA all the time, like I was just running forward all the time and not aware of my actual existence in my life.
Speaker 1:What was that? What was that? Not to break you, cut you off, cause I've had a similar like come to Jesus, type moment, like realization what, what, when was that moment? When, when did that happen? Where you were like okay, let me, let me Peter off the gas pedal a little bit and slow things down a little bit.
Speaker 3:Where you were like okay, let me, let me.
Speaker 1:Peter off the gas pedal a little bit and slow things down a little bit.
Speaker 4:Wow, uh, I still have a hard time slowing down Like my slowing down is way faster than uh, my goal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, You're still going a hundred. Yeah, yeah it was. You know I've been really fortunate in my life to be able to have goals and meet them or exceed them, and then see through the fallacy of those bringing me happiness. And so you know we've talked about little points in my career already, but uh, you know, like I wanted to go into special forces in the marine corps, which that's not something that's you can just say I'm gonna go do that and you're like especially in the marine corps I pulled that off.
Speaker 3:You know I got to. I got to go to sniper school in the Marine Corps. You know I'm a Marine, highly trained in field skills and markmanship, who delivers long range precision fire from a concealed position.
Speaker 3:You know like I still remember that shit from being punished in the Marine Corps, you know, while learning how to murder people. Like I did that. Uh, you know, that wasn't enough, you know. And so I went through my special forces career. Uh, I didn't get enough like real wartime action. When I was in, I got bored. I was like, oh, okay, like I'm bored of the Marine Corps, like I thought I'd spent 20 years in the Marine Corps but within five years I was bored of it. I'd already done two deployments and you can just look forward the next 20 years of your life. And that was just too boring. So I got out. Kind of going back to the original question here why did I start fighting or what got me into it? So I had always been, you know, through the Marine Corps you get to fight a bunch there if you want.
Speaker 1:It's nice, it blows off steam.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's plenty of other dudes around that want to put boxing gloves on or wrestle. Some of my closest friends I still in contact with are from that time in my life. But so I got out of that and you know, like one of my friends literally got a flyer for like an underground illegal fight Because prior to whatever the year is like, fighting was illegal in America, especially in California. Like the Boxing Commission has shut that shit down. And uh, so I had one of my buddies came over and was like yo, brian, you like to fight. Like here's this flyer for this underground fight that's happening. And I was like shut up.
Speaker 4:Oh, I mean, I was like I'm into that. Pomona One was in Pomona, one was in San Bernardino Wild Wild West, wild Wild West.
Speaker 1:Yeah wild, wild west yeah everything, so you did it so I did it and you won one of them.
Speaker 3:The fucking cops showed up like SWAT teams and all that and just shut the whole thing down. I was like literally about to walk out from my fight.
Speaker 2:First fight ever and the cops come and raid the thing and it gets shut down. That's a moment. Yeah, that's a moment.
Speaker 3:And then, uh yeah, the second one I went to, I won. Uh, I had no idea what jujitsu was and this dude had me in an arm bar. He just wasn't good enough to break my fucking strong arm. I could just hold it there, but I could beat him in the face while he was holding my arm and his face gave out before my elbow did.
Speaker 4:But I'll tell you what like I might have won that night but I didn't really win because my arm was jacked up for like 10 years.
Speaker 3:after that, I finally had to get surgery on my elbow from that fight because he cracked my elbow and so for 10 years I had a little floating piece of bone in my elbow. But I drove home, you know, like ice packs on my elbow, happy that I won, but did I yeah?
Speaker 2:It's interesting hearing you talk about these things. Yes, there is a violent side to you, but there's also the super peaceful serene, floating on clouds side as well, floating on cloud side as well? Has it been hard through your life to slow down the aggressive side to match with this peaceful, peaceful side, and if so, how and what struggles have you faced?
Speaker 3:Great questions. So I'm reaching these goals right. I get through sniper school, I get through the Marine Corps, I get out. I see these fights happening. I go down that road and so I just want to get better. And then I'm like, oh and again, there's not a lot of money in it.
Speaker 3:Back then I just want to be the best fighter I can be, I want to be really good at fighting and when I really get to the root of that, it's because I like to protect people you know, like like to be of service, like I want to know that in around my clan, my clan, is safe, like there's no one that's going to protect my clan more than me. Um, so my, even my aggression and my fighting through my life comes from a loving place creating security and a a safeness for the the ones around you.
Speaker 1:That's some real awful shit for everyone listening that's. That's. That's what a real alpha is supposed to be.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, you're not doing it to fucking hurt people if you're doing your job right, like if you're being a real alpha. No one's scared of you. Yeah, you're not, you never fight with anybody, because you're smart enough to get yourself out of that harm's way before it becomes that Like that's really what it's about so.
Speaker 3:So you know, I get to the top of the fight world. You know, like I'm fighting in Japan, I'm fighting for the International Fight League. They're paying me a year's salary. Like I made 70 grand. When you're fighting Like things are going great Like. And then I started I started realizing you fighting like things are going great Like. And then I started I started realizing like there is fighting money in the fighting world.
Speaker 3:but you see this, heavy thing of politics in the fight world, you know, and like I've seen these organizations uh really screw over. Like fighters are athletes, like livelihoods and stuff just out of personal beefs and because they can and uh the AFL that I fought for got bought by another big company. Um, and then that was when I was making this decision, like, oh you know, I'm in my early 30s, like I'm just as good as most of these guys, like some people are better than me, like, hands down, you know.
Speaker 4:Like I got room to work on but I'm right there with these dudes, you know, like, like, like I fought a guy that vandal a silva has fought before.
Speaker 3:You know like we both beat that guy so like I should get to fight vandal a silva that's, yeah, you know like uh who, by the way, that's one of my favorite fighters next to dan henderson I hated seeing those two fights and uh, yeah, v, he's a really nice guy. So I get to the top of that world and I'm like, oh, I'm not going to invest the rest of my life in these big giant fight companies that really just care about themselves, like I've already watched them flush careers down. It's politics. And so I bowed out of the fighting world and one of my special forces friends had been, you know, handling me to come over to Iraq and work and so I went as a and this is a real loose word right here the word contractor, yeah.
Speaker 3:It means the same as athlete or exercise. You know it means a lot of different things. We can work into that if we want, but I went over as a contractor for a couple years and then that job helped me. It was the gateway to getting a job. As a man I don't even know what to call myself like I worked straight for the government, like that's like. I had a you know a department of defense, id and I would fly over to afghanistan and I would work for them.
Speaker 3:You know me and a bunch of other special forces buddies, you know, like that wasn't, you could kind of put that in contract world, but not really more security type stuff at that time.
Speaker 1:Uh, fuck man, doing dirty work for the government, that's what I was, oh yeah yeah, and, and and I I know I know some questions to pry, but you said you gave us a challenge.
Speaker 3:You said yeah this won't answer your questions.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm still waiting for that I'll still wait for that.
Speaker 1:No, can't. No comment.
Speaker 3:So I get to the very top of the special forces world right. Like I'm living in Afghanistan in a safe house with no boss and like just fucking little missions to go do with my two or three buddies every couple of days. You know I Every couple of days. You know I'm like we got to fuck. I loved living in a safe house in Afghanistan.
Speaker 2:Like don't get me wrong, it's got to feel cool right, it's got its upsides.
Speaker 3:Like there's nights when you're laying in bed and you know that your house is supposed to get hit that week, Like you're going to get raided by another special forces team, Like it makes fucking sleeping kind of hard some nights and that house did get hit. I wasn't there, luckily, you know, or unluckily. Like fuck, I want that too. The alpha side of me wants that.
Speaker 1:That gas pedal. Yeah, yeah, that adrenaline I got you.
Speaker 3:I get to the top of these different worlds and am I happier? No, no. And so to answer your question before, like what opened this door to me? It's sitting there and realizing like, oh, I can just keep accomplishing goals and keep getting for me getting tougher and more violent and testing myself. But I'm at this point, you know, in afghanistan, where there's no more testing like you, just, you just die. You know, like I've already been in some confrontations over there where it's, you know, you're gonna die or I'm gonna die, and I just haven't happened to die yet or just be in the wrong spot. Most of my buddies that died over there just get blown up on accident.
Speaker 3:So I was sitting over there and you know I'm just actually one of the realization moments was one of those nights when I'm like laying there with my pistol and grenades and fucking, I'm like listening to every little pin drop because we're supposed to be getting attacked and I was like, well, fuck, brian, like you get yourself in some fucking weird positions, man. Like what the fuck are you doing right here? You know like I own a tattoo shop back in you know, california. I got a beautiful wife that I love. I'm laying here like hmm, about to go down tonight, you know, like fuck, you know. And so it's getting to those achievements and realizing that there's no happiness because of that and maybe this is open for debate.
Speaker 3:but what's life about? I think it's about being happy if you can, but most of us don't even know what the definition of that is Do you guys have a definition for what happiness is?
Speaker 2:My own form.
Speaker 3:Do you guys have a definition for what happiness is?
Speaker 2:My own form. But you know, happiness is what I feel when I'm around my kids, when I'm in that that third eye moment where I just I'm not even involved, I'm just visualizing it from from a distance. That is when I witness my true happiness. I'm like damn, my life is crazy, like I can't believe I get to exist and do this thing. One of the things I've been on lately is existing, and that is happiness for me too, because I believe that the fact that we exist is a blessing in itself. You know, however, we got here. It doesn't matter whatever God you believe in, whatever blah blah, he got you here. But the fact that we're here and we're able to be sound and we don't have you know, none of us are special, none of us have ill like that makes me happy, and it took me a long time to get to that point. So just being able to exist is happiness for me too.
Speaker 1:I'm still trying to find my happiness doing this. I didn't realize how happy this was going to make me. Uh, working on this podcast with brian brandon and uh brandon can be fun to hang out with.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I've had some fun times hanging out with people's stories.
Speaker 1:Has really that, yeah, so this, this has brought me more happiness in the past few years than a lot of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. This whole thing is interesting. Yes, we've had amazing times together, me and.
Speaker 2:Brian, we've had like our relationship is so cool. You know what I mean. It's filled with drama, it's all those things. It's not some fucking easy fucking road. I'm an asshole, he's an asshole and we have moments and shit like that. One thing I'm good at is humility. Brian is a good straight shooter, so we've always found a common ground and you know I don't hold grudges, he doesn't hold grudges as well. So we've been able to salvage a relationship. I used to work. Let's get into some heavy shit. Yeah, this episode for me is huge. Um, this is a full circle episode. I used to work at elizabeth street for years. I worked here for six years. Brian ended up having to let me go. That is a big deal for a big deal for me. There's a lot of anxiety going into this episode Since we last worked together. I absolutely love Brian outside of the shop, but me and him do not do well inside of the shop working together at that time. You know when we broke.
Speaker 2:I've had opportunities to see the other side the grass what grass is green or what grass is not. The grass what grass is green or what grass is not. I have had opportunities to see his perspective upon my um uh, contribution into his shop and I've got to see where I was wrong and I was right and I think it's pivotal from uh tattoo artists to tattoo owner to clear the air and to speak about this stuff because there's so many things that you know seem like they were.
Speaker 2:I'll die on this hill at the time, but I are absolutely nothing now. You know what I mean and understanding who.
Speaker 4:I was within his shop right now or at that time, and having to have a year to get me to understand it, having to lose my position to have, and he had to take it from me like you know brian being an asshole good guy, all that stuff like that he still feels and he doesn't.
Speaker 2:I'm his boy. He didn't want to let me go like. That wasn't what he wanted to do. It sucks as a shop owner, but when I opened up my own doors and I started dealing with some of the things that he was experiencing as far as people not being transparent, um not communicating on a common level, so you can get an understanding of what not caring about your business as much as you do was huge, you know, and that's why, for me, this is full circle.
Speaker 2:Not only we. We went up. We hated each other. I hated Brian for a moment. I don't know how he felt. I hated him for a moment. I still called him and kept the relationship between him, and I do this often with people who teach me things or I feel like I receive beneficial information from when I have these aha moments.
Speaker 2:I will call you at the aha moment. I don't wait. So I call brian. He's in his garden. I'm like b just had a fucking moment, bro. Like I understand why you had to. Let me go, bro. You know what I mean. Like I get it, you know. Yeah, yeah yeah. And he was like oh yeah, like what are we talking about?
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, because we always have deep conversation.
Speaker 2:This is just one of them, another one that it took a moment to get to. When we had our conversation and I mean the air was clear immediately. It was clear before I even got on the phone. Like I said, he doesn't hold a grudge, and you know, and, um, it was interesting being here and learning so much and then having it taken away from me you know what I mean and then having to appreciate it from a distance. Um, if you are a tattoo artist and you guys are having problems within your business, man, the best thing to do is be transparent and go to the owner. It's not fun being an owner, it's not fun managing fucking people. I found that out within the years that I absolutely fucking hate it. And when they tell you oh man, this shit, you know this not.
Speaker 2:Grass is not greener, that's what the fuck they're talking about Like it's having a whole bunch of man babies and, you know, little girls up under you.
Speaker 3:Man babies.
Speaker 4:I like that, you know for the life of you just won't fucking work together.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and that's what the hardest part about this tattoo industry is is oh yeah, we're free, we're artists for this that whatever. But you also get a whole bunch of different individuals that you have to corral to try and get to work together to make your dream, you know, this is Brian's dream in some way, shape or form, and when people don't subscribe to your dream, it's offensive.
Speaker 2:It's offensive, you know what I mean, and at the end of the day, he's going to take the brunt of it. So, understanding these things coming from a private studio owner side of things made me understand them there was no way I could have understood them as an artist working within elizabeth street, because I didn't have that disconnect. I was just under it, you know, trying to start rebellions and like why isn't it'm? Like why isn't it like this and why isn't it like that?
Speaker 1:I remember some of those rebellions.
Speaker 4:Yeah man.
Speaker 2:And like for what? Like there was really nothing to gain. You know what I mean. Like when I could have just sat there and shut the fuck up. You know that was my job was to shut the fuck up and tattoo. You know what I mean, but I was Mr Political Revolutionary.
Speaker 1:The hardest side of you was coming out Right, and I'm a heavily emotional person.
Speaker 2:And part of the problem is I see B as my homie. I don't see B as my boss at all, like that's my homie, right there, like. So I'm going to say what I got to say. You know what I mean and like. But I also have a level of respect for him too, where I'm like all right, you know. So there's this. What can I say to him? Cause?
Speaker 1:you know, he is special forces.
Speaker 2:Mr.
Speaker 1:You know and I consider myself an alpha as well you know what.
Speaker 2:I mean, and like you know, so um so I just wanted to say that this is full circle. For me, it's a big moment. Um, Brian is one of my homies. Uh, you know, even though we've had ups and downs, I mean this is the second one of my best friends that has fired me on a job. One of my other homies, nate, fired me too because I was mounting off and shit.
Speaker 1:So you know we'll go for three and then we'll stop there. But yeah, so from your point of view, Brian, now that you've heard all of that, Explain to me what it was.
Speaker 2:At that time we were different, then Life was different. Then life was different. Then there was we were coming off of COVID, we were coming off of Trump, we were coming off of his brother passed. You feel me, tobias Crabtree, we'll talk about that as well, but what was it?
Speaker 4:that caused that? What was it from your side as an owner that and I'm kind of you know, be nice be fucking nice right now you feel me, I, it's funny and I'm kind of you know, be nice, be fucking nice.
Speaker 1:Right now you feel me All right.
Speaker 3:It's funny Like I've heard you say that like you and I have like had our struggles or our battles and I don't feel like it like that. I feel like more like I just stood there while you battled me. Like more like I just stood there while you battled me. Like I feel more like I've been a mirror for you in you know, like and in all those situations not that I haven't like had something to do with it you know, like I am a straight shooter and I to a fault, I don't beat around the bush and you know, as I've learned, things like I don't connect on the emotional side, that often, like I things like I don't connect on the emotional side, that often like I'm more of a analytical thinker which has a lot of faults to it, even though we tend to, as a society, hold that in really high regards like oh, he's got a lot of critical thinking, he's super smart. You know like he's really analytical, he can figure these things out.
Speaker 3:Like you're missing on another entire side of existence by not being in touch with, like the emotional side of things. Like you know, when you walk into a room, if everybody in there is in a good mood or not. In a good mood, you know like that's from your emotional side of thinking, like being really intuitive with what's around you. So I lack that a lot of times. I'll be in environments with my wife and we'll leave and she'll be like that guy I think was on heroin or some crazy shit and I'll be like uh, that guy jeff seemed pretty cool, he was having a good time.
Speaker 1:You know my wife be like you're an idiot.
Speaker 3:You know like that dude was on whatever. You know like I'm not always in tune with that, so it's to a fault sometimes. But uh, yeah, I've never thought of you as like someone I'm struggling with in my life. You know, I've always just been like, oh man, like Brandon Mays having a hard fucking time right now, and man, we go back over the last like three or four years and you know like, if we dig into your life with relationships and having children and all that, like man, I've seen you go through really hard things and so, yeah, it bubbles up at work and I will let, I've, I'd let and watched you let it bubble up at work a bunch of times.
Speaker 3:You know like, and how can we not do that? Like we act like we can separate ourselves into different humans that can go to work and be one way and be at home and be another. Like that's fake, like just be a real person and you're just the same person all the time. Like I used to get nervous if I was going to go on TV or be recorded or something like that, but now I'm just kind of always myself, so I don't really care if the cameras and mics are on or they're not on. I'm just going to tell you how I feel about things. Like, not much I'm hiding here, you know Right. So I haven't really had ill will with you ever, other than just being like damn brands are paying the fucking ass.
Speaker 4:He's having a really hard time. You know, I'm like.
Speaker 3:I look, I like to look at the full picture and you know, like I know, you have had some fucking real difficult things. And fuck man, like in the real tattoo world, like look at the elephant in the corner, like you're fucking black, it's fucking hard, like this is like you know, as PC as the world wants to try to be right now and all that or is becoming, I don't know, Like, like it's not easy being black in the fucking tattoo world. Thank you for saying that I've never once said that on the show.
Speaker 2:We haven't talked about it yet. I try not to bring that up because it always looks like you know, here he goes again. You know, I like to let it happen organically. Somebody was saying the other day like, oh, we don't play off of the black and white thing.
Speaker 4:Somebody told us that I was thinking. We don't play off of the black and white thing.
Speaker 3:Somebody told us we don't water those trees you know, yeah, well, you know I'm not trying to water right now. I'm just saying when I look at you as a whole person, not just the guy that shows up to work, like I don't know what that feels like. You know, like I've lived in other environments where I fucking stood out and everyone I didn't like. When I went to the grocery store in Afghanistan looking just like I do, white and ballheaded, like I got some dirty looks.
Speaker 4:You're a media target too, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, like maybe that's some ways to relate to it, but like I've been in the tattoo world since I was young and like that's always been a racist world, just the fucking way it is, you know, and I've been pretty lucky you know, I haven't faced too much drama like as far as the extreme sides of what could happen.
Speaker 2:I consider myself lucky and this normal for what it is that I'm doing within my world. Um I that's why I have a dog on my profile picture and not my face. Cause everybody loves dogs. You know what I mean. Um specifically white people and shit.
Speaker 3:So this white guy loves dogs.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so you know, we we went through our things. Um, it's been amazing. I feel like sometimes it is a necessary evil. I believe what happened between us is a necessary evil. I believe what happened between us was a necessary evil. Um, for me to get better understanding of who it is that I am, who it is that you are, perspective on this thing they call life.
Speaker 4:Um, and I'm I'm happy about it.
Speaker 2:now, you know look at us now. We're in the, you know, not like it ever stopped us before, but you know, hopefully you can see the gains on me. I could see the gains on you. You know we're evolving in a positive direction and you've helped me with that. You know a lot of writing, reads a lot and he does his research, one of the reasons I brought his ass on here is because does research before y'all even thinking about it.
Speaker 2:You know, everybody was in the Wim Hof and all that stuff. He was already certified and then it got hot. Where does this come? From when does this knowledge bank stem from, and how do you go about attacking something that you're interested?
Speaker 3:in.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting question um I've always been influenced by how it's not that you're just researching, like you do it with great intent.
Speaker 1:That's driven, yeah, and it's the right shit it's just like okay, there's no bullshit involved.
Speaker 2:I'm like, but that's really hard to do within a world full of information. Now, right, it's hard to get to the bottom line, the, the creek the right, the natural creek which you used to go to and get water yeah like is what influence does that be? Like it from the the, your past and your extremes like? Why?
Speaker 3:is that like? How do you, how is that?
Speaker 2:the outcome of of your results. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Like well it it goes uh, goes back to what we were talking about earlier. Like I, I want to. I'm like trying to figure out what happiness is what is that?
Speaker 3:and so I am not content with sitting around like a lot of the other animals around me and just accepting what is as the way it is, and then, you know, sucking it up if you will. Like I want to. I want to look like we only got this short time here on this earth and like I'm not content with just, you know, going to home Depot and Stater brothers and watching Netflix and fucking staring at my phone all day to see what other people are doing. Like I actually don't understand it. Like it trips me out a little bit that people are just in that coma state. You know, like nine to five job, stare at your phone. What are you doing on x holiday? Like repeat next year, repeat next year. Now I go to the hospital all the time because I'm old, I had some kids and you're dead. Like is that fucking it? Like no, that's not it. Like I want to know what. I want to know some deeper things about what life is. Um, you know, and and in that pursuit you know, like from a kid, because I wasn't happy at home, you know I've been pursuing other things that I thought might be better, and from being so fortunate to travel around the world several times, like a lot of your Asian countries and a lot of the Middle East, and then on my own and for work, like going through parts of Europe and really getting to look at all of these different animal groups running around and how they have their own.
Speaker 3:Like you know, I I call it a box. Like people love to put themselves inside of boxes. Like I'm an american. You just put yourself in a fucking box, you know, and then go down from there. I'm white. You just put yourself in another box. I'm a christian. You're now an even smaller box. I'm a whatever your sport fan of skateboarder, motorcycle guy. I fucking knit all the time. I'm a podcaster, like I'm a tattooer, you know, like whatever label. You just decided to put yourself into smaller box and so we keep putting ourselves in these smaller and smaller boxes and then when you're in that little tiny box, you run around with the other people inside of your box. Dodge trucks are the best you know like, or whatever. Your thing is that you put yourself like like if you're a dirt bike motorcycle guy, you won't like all the motorcycles, then you'll only like the dirt bike motorcycles, but that's not going to be a small enough box for you. So once you like all the dirt bike, motorcycles, then you got to pick a brand. And then you pick your brand. I love Suzuki or Harley Davidson or whatever the brand of thing you like is. I don't care if we're talking about headphones or motorcycles. You just keep putting yourself into a smaller box and then that's where you live and you can be on the top of your little tiny small box.
Speaker 3:And I want to see something bigger in life and through traveling around the world. You know, like I've been looking at these groups and the buddhist groups are the ones that I find that tend to be the happiness, like I saw a lot of happiness in Malaysia, singapore, indonesia, bali, you know, like all those different countries, and then every once in a while I'd find some of those peoples in a European country or here in America and they'd always seem like they were fucking happy, almost kind of irritating. I was in Bali this is back when I was working in Afghanistan and you know I took vacation with the Bali and my wife flew out there. Uh, that was a great trip.
Speaker 1:That that's a couple of that's an hour talk Uh and, uh, everyone there's crazy nice.
Speaker 3:You know, like all the merchants, all the restaurant workers and I'm just like God damn, dude, is everybody here have to be this polite, like I'm not going to buy your shit. Like you know, like every person I felt like was trying to sell me something because they're so nice, and I'm standing at a corner getting ready to walk across and there's a cop there doesn't even have a gun, doesn't need one.
Speaker 3:You know, like we're so violent here in America which I'm not even painting that as a bad picture, like this universe that we're in is is violent and just know that if you're living in America, you live in a very violent culture, like, like I call America a military country or a military with a society attached to it to feed the military. You know, I'm not even calling that a bad thing, I'm a big part of it, like a big part of the military, like I you know, I part of it, like a big part of the military, like I.
Speaker 3:You know I could go into that, but you know, so I. So this cop's standing there now this cop's asking me questions, you know, but just being super nice and I'm like all right, this cop's not trying to sell me anything like, oh shit, like everyone in this country is just really actually nice people and they're happy that's it um, you know, and so exploring what that is like, looking deep, deeper into psychology and and you know different isms uh is what ran me into wim hof.
Speaker 3:You know, and I could talk about that literally for six hours.
Speaker 2:I am a trained instructor in the wim hof stuff uh I remember you saying you were, I would always say hey. Brian, you going on vacation, You'd be like no, Brandon, this is my life. Has your schedule changed? Explain to the people what your schedule looks like.
Speaker 3:Well, I've always been trying to live a life that I don't need a vacation from Like. I want my daily life to be enjoyable and I just want to like, enjoy my life. I don't want my life to be on some schedule to that I need a vacation from my own life. Don't get me wrong. I've had plenty of times in my life where I wanted a vacation from my life, just like everybody else.
Speaker 2:But you designed it though, yeah. I'm not just saying like, oh yeah, he wants this. No, he stopped what he was doing. He set a strategic schedule for his lifestyle and now lives this schedule out as his norm. You know, this is his new norm. So what we would call vacation is called Wednesday and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:And I think that's a huge thing is like shifting one's perspective on how we can go about the time, how we can slice the pie is huge. You know what I mean. People are looking how to get out of these ruts and out of these situations that they're in, and everybody's always looking for some big fucking fix. You know what I mean. When it could just be, hey, wake up a little bit earlier. You know what I mean. When it could just be, hey, wake up a little bit earlier. You know what I mean. Maybe spend more time with your kid. I know you spend a lot of time at the beach with uh canon, right yeah canon's my 11 year old 11 and canon is so dope um.
Speaker 2:He's a little artist in the making.
Speaker 3:He's had no choice.
Speaker 2:He's been surrounded by artists, um, uh, and one of his best buddies was brian's sniper partner. His name was tobias crabtree. Tobias crabtree was this prolific individual and um me, brian and tobias used to, after work, sometimes just kick the can around, have deep conversations and stuff like that. Um, tobias used to live in the wilderness and whenever he would come back into society he would come and tattoo with Brian. He would tap into his, he would set some appointments up, brian would provide all of his stuff. I remember one time Brian was ordering him supplies.
Speaker 4:He was somewhere.
Speaker 2:He might have. I think it was like Baja or something like that, and Brian sent him all pink supplies, right, he sent him all pink clip cord, pink rubber bands and they're like I'm like what are you doing? Right, let's go on, tobias and tobias would come by, not every six months, or there was no schedule to no schedule yeah, um they're. They were like one person you know um, tobias. Uh passed away at brian's house maybe two, three years ago longer than that five yeah, like 2018, okay, 2018.
Speaker 2:Um tobias was one of those people. He was a backbone individual like he. 100 controlled a corner of the room in any room. He went in, but he didn't try to. He, you know, he wasn't in a suit, he was in some shoes that he wore, he was in a vest that he made. You know, he was just this individual, self-proclaimed Tarzan, an amazing writer, amazing artists.
Speaker 2:One of the things that really touched me working at Elizabeth street was watching you do the black book, which was Tobias's diary, his lifelong diary of all of the stories and interactions he's had that he felt he needed to write about Tobias. Every time we saw him as artists, you know, working in the shop, we would see Tobias working in Brian's move. Every time, just, he would set up his little setup you draw on these little miniature things and we'd be like, well, amazing artists, you guys check it out too. You could purchase the uh, the black book through brian. He'll give you all that information. Um, one of the.
Speaker 2:This was a pivotal moment for me because I knew how much you love him. I have two brothers who I'm very close with. Um tobias. That was your brother. You know what I mean and I watched you go through that um, you had many opportunities to kind of just call it a quits because the shop it was, it was running, but you know it wasn't like perfect and I know you were like, man, fuck these guys. Right now you know, um, why did you do that and how was that going through that process, was it thing? Um, how is that project going now?
Speaker 3:You got. You hit me with a couple of questions there.
Speaker 2:So let me and you don't got to answer them all Answer it with whatever you feel like. So we'll just get back to my daily schedule.
Speaker 3:Um, and then the passing of my closest friend, tobias Crabtree. Uh is one of these pivotal moments in my life, just like seeing all the Buddhists around the world and trying to figure out, like, what do these guys have that's making them happy? You know that.
Speaker 4:I'm missing.
Speaker 3:I was already on that journey when Tobe died. So Tobias and I met in the Marine Corps as sniper school partners.
Speaker 4:We did not like each other.
Speaker 3:You know, like for the first like month and a half of sniper school and then, if you suffer enough with somebody, there's just this, there's this, this unity that you two get that. For us it was inseparable, you know, like. So after sniper school, him and I were, you know, almost like a team through life. You know, sometimes we lived together. There was times when he moved to Patagonia in Argentina for a year. So we'd keep in contact, you know, but real loosely through email. So there's times when our life courses diverged but they'd come back together.
Speaker 3:You know it's probably a two-hour talk just talking about him but you know the the real meat or heart of that story is. You know how much I love that guy. My my wife even jokes that when she married me she married him.
Speaker 3:So he had a real tight bond with my son too, which is where a lot of his art seeds kind of got planted you know the and, so yeah one morning I woke up and you know I went and turned the coffee on in the kitchen and I walked by and I looked into my backyard and I have a swimming pool and I saw my best friend floating in the pool.
Speaker 3:It's backside up, and that's a hard, that's a hard pill to swallow, you know run out and break your friend's ribs doing CPR Cause I'm trained in all these crazy life saving. You know things, so you know I ran out there, jumped in the water, pulled them out, did CPR, you know, and then had to make the nasty phone calls you got to make after that, and it's just a real eye opening time on the reality of what this existence is like. We're all going to die.
Speaker 1:We're all going to Excuse me.
Speaker 3:We're all going to watch everything around us change. You're going to watch the things that you enjoy, the things you don't enjoy in life. They're all going to watch everything around us change. You're going to watch the things that you enjoy, the things you don't enjoy in life. They're all going to change. It's like a total guarantee. You're going to, like think of who you love the most in your life, like you're not going to always be with them.
Speaker 3:It's just that's what this universe that I'm talking about. It's chaotic. Like there's a real nasty side of this life that we like to candy coat over and just kind of not talk about, especially here in American culture. And you know, when someone dies, we like don't talk about it too much, go to the funeral and then don't ever bring that person up again. You know, like I'm not about that.
Speaker 3:You know like I I like the reality of that. This existence here is short and we should be appreciating literally every second. You know, like that's what I'm working towards is like realizing I'm sitting in this chair right now and I really just had a good glass of coffee and I'm talking with an old friend and a new friend and like, hopefully, in 10 years, we'll be bullshitting about this. You know, like this moment right now is really cool in time, like it's really cool right now, yeah, and so I want to understand that, instead of being bulldozing through life every day, you know, and so when we go, if we ever get to talking about my daily schedule, it's really chill, it's really chill.
Speaker 4:I try to keep it super chill.
Speaker 3:I'll go do some fun things like ride dirt bikes every once in a while, but I just like to try to keep myself chill.
Speaker 3:We'll get into our routines later, I'm sure. But you specifically asked me about the black book, and so the black book is just an inch and a half thick book. It's a little bit bigger than a regular sheet of paper. Uh, and me and my friend, my sniper school partner, tobias, we he's a mentor to me in art. Like he's always been better. If you're into visual arts, you know. Like he's always been better at drawing hands and perspective. Or you know, like he needs an. What you need is you name the kind of human face, that an emotion you want. Like he could draw that or like I'll struggle with that. You know, if someone's like I want like a latin american looking dude that's sad that his grandma just died, you know, like toe would be able to sit down and like draw that out for you, where I'd be like, ah, you're going to need to show me a picture of that, you know.
Speaker 3:So that guy's my mentor in the art world, you know. Since we're just segwaying all over the place, here's a fun story for you, brandon, when me and Tobe were in sniper school. Like you're training in there, you know, to murder people, worst case scenario. So you have to train. Where there's no electronics, you have to be prepared for electronics don't work, and so they still make you go out with a piece of paper and a pencil and sneak back to whatever your objective is and draw that objective, like, like, make a drawing or a sketch of what you actually see. So you could take that drawing back and show it to some commander or whatever and help them identify the target.
Speaker 3:Like, a lot of sniping is more spying. Like you're way more often going to be used as a really sneaky pair of eyes than you are to take people out. You know, depends on your war and your situation, but you need to be really good at being sneaky. And so we both get on our first objective together and I tell, I tell Tobias, hey, I'll draw this, I'm pretty good at drawing and I'm fast. And he says, no man, it's cool, I'm pretty fast at drawing and I'm pretty good, I'll do the drawing. And you know, we're both 20 year old alpha males trying to prove ourselves in sniper school Like no one's fucking better than us. I was like I don't remember the exact conversation. We both were like we'll just both draw it, you know and see who's fucking better.
Speaker 4:Tough guys, yeah, tough guys.
Speaker 3:And we get we get done and hand each other. No, we're not. We're not mad at each other.
Speaker 1:You know, tired, fucking hungry so we show it to those drawings and we're like oh, dude, you can draw.
Speaker 3:Like okay, it was a rarity in the marine corps. You don't run into people that can do art. Yeah, so that was like a little tie we had from really like the very beginning.
Speaker 3:Yeah and uh, I've always been learning from him, you know for fucking 20 years, and so we did a couple big art shows together. They were super fun, but tobe was way more of a wandering, like a nomad, you know, like he didn't want to be stuck in one place. Um, and so when you're, when you're traveling a lot, you know making your money through traveling and doing art. Like you can't carry big pieces of paper and canvases around, you just can't. And so he made the decision to carry this one book around until it was full from cover to cover, and it was like over 200 pages.
Speaker 1:Thinking that when it's done.
Speaker 3:He'd do an art show with that book and then just be able to sell that book to people or give it to people, because it's less about making money and more about spreading this really cool message that's in that book. And so he carried that book around for almost a decade, drawing in it all the time. And so you know, eight, 10 years into this, you know that book's got a lot of information in it. You know, like a lot of time it's traveled around the world. A couple of times it's been everywhere. And so before he passed away, you know, being the good friend you like, I was like yo, dude, we gotta start copying that thing. It's gonna get stolen or you're gonna fucking dump it in water or something's gonna happen to it.
Speaker 3:So so we had started the copying process of that um, and actually darla that now works there, she was the apprentice at the time and one of her jobs was just to come in every day and scan like 10, 20 pictures in that book. You know, like.
Speaker 2:So I always got to give her a little credit for helping me get that book done.
Speaker 3:And so half that book you know the actual books a 90 percent of it was done. So we had like another 10 percent to finish, you know another couple of years, and then that art project would have been done like a 15 year project and I already had like half the book book copied. And so when he passed away it just felt like such a shame to know that that book was just going to get thrown in a cardboard box and end up in an attic somewhere. And so, you know, I talked to with his brother I'm really close with his family and I'm grateful to them for letting me, like, continue on and spread that book. So with Darla's help, we copied the rest of that thing and I figured out.
Speaker 3:You know, everything is figureoutable nowadays with the internet. Like you couldn't do this shit 40 years ago if you wanted to publish a book you kind of needed to meet a book publisher and, like talk to somebody. But we're so lucky nowadays to just have like all this information in our damn pockets, you know. So I just emailed a friend and they emailed me back. Like I know a guy knows about books, you know, and they email me this thing. And next thing I know like I'm figuring out like the library of congress isbn numbers that are in books.
Speaker 4:You know like and how to buy those, and it's not that big of a deal.
Speaker 3:Anybody can publish a book, and so I self published that book, you know, just finished getting to put together and found a printer and, you know, save some money up and printed a hundred of them and now they're on on, they're still being sold today, like we sell one or two every couple of weeks, you know, every once in a while, tobias's Instagram is still weeks, you know, every once in a while, uh, tobias's Instagram is still working, you know, and so once in a while that'll get a little flurry up and we'll sell 10 books in a month or something. Um, but I, I, I did that art project because that man was so full of love and, you know, it'd be really fun to break down that, that, that man, you know, and, and his time here, uh, and what he did for people, but he was spreading love to man, you know, and and his time here, uh, and what he did for people, but he was spreading love to, you know, people.
Speaker 3:He was like people loved to be around him and you know, when you really break down how he existed there was nothing special about it he's just being fucking real, um, you know, and for selfish reasons, like I don't want to buy his crab treat to ever die, you know like that's his painting right there. You know like those skulls hanging on the wall there are his. You know like he shared this space. We tattooed together in this space, for you know a long time like more than a decade we worked together.
Speaker 3:So I don't, for selfish reasons, even want that man to die in my life, like it means a lot and so, hell yeah, I keep that black book going, like it's fucking cool. I've never met a human that's gone through that book and not been touched by it, been like even tough guys are like damn, you know, let's fuck brute tough. It's cool, you know, like it's a great book and and it's, if you read the first passage in it, like it's designed for children, you know like that's what that book's about. So yeah, get a. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I used to watch some of the videos that him and Canon like on Instagram and stuff and him, you know, joking with Canon like, oh I shit in the spa you know, I shit in this bar.
Speaker 2:He'd be like you did you know? Like just the originality of this man, uh, was really fucking nice. Um, I couldn't come on here without bringing up tobias just because I feel like that was one of the lows that I saw you go through. You know, um, being an individual who struggles with emotion and stuff like that, how does somebody comfort you?
Speaker 3:yeah, that's a good question yeah, it takes a hard person, I guess. Uh, what does that?
Speaker 2:look like kind of way to just kind of give you a hug, and that's not gonna work I'll take a hug, man, no problem it's not gonna have its effect though yeah, yeah or who felt like that and then like I don't know, like sometimes your, your reputation subsides you, so maybe when he needed a hug, you just assume that ryan don't want that you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So you you stop, or you know like he's tough guy, he'll be all right like. I'm gonna ask it again, though, because now I feel like it's an even better question for individuals who have a harsher edge. You know, um, what does your wife do to comfort you in situations when you're just? You've dealt with a lot of extremes, and emotion just isn't the same for you anymore.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my wife Summer Foster Is a fucking pit bull man. She's a tough girl. I'm like when I look back at our 20 years of marriage and some of the shit I have put her through it's it's unbelievable that she's still with me. I'm like full-time cage fighting and I come home and tell her like hey, I'm going to take another job in Iraq.
Speaker 2:And she's like what you know, huh.
Speaker 3:I didn't even give her like, I didn't talk to her about it. I was just like, hey, you know, like I got about six months of training to do, I got hired. You know, I'll be living in Iraq for three months and then coming home to visit you, you know, and she's like, all right, she's fucking tough man. She kept through it with that. But it also means that like that's a tough girl Like so means that like that's a tough girl like so, maybe his strength, maybe being strong for you, yeah, she gives me space. That's what she does. Like she'll give me space when I need it, and some people need space and some people don't need space.
Speaker 3:Uh, the biggest person who helped me out when tobe died is my, is my son, who was five years old, and so I couldn't believe that he died. You know, I'm sitting in my backyard, I'm holding this guy like just like how the fuck can this be true? Like he's one of the healthiest individuals I've ever met, you know, and I figured he'd out way, outlive me like no problem, and then there he is dead.
Speaker 3:you know I'm like fuck my heart's broken but I'm good at turning that off and doing my job. You know, and like a lot of that that comes from probably trauma as a child and then also, you know, being in war situations like you don't get to, you don't get to think about it when you're aiming on a kid in their family, like that's not. Like you see a family there, like that needs to die for your objective to get finished. Like you just turn that off, compartmentalize, yeah not everybody can do that like like a lot of people have really bad pst, ptsd.
Speaker 3:Uh, I'm, I have it, but then it's not from like holding my dead friend or something like that, you know like.
Speaker 1:I'm able to come.
Speaker 3:You know, like set that stuff to the side and take care of it. So the day that it happened, you know where I couldn't do. That is when I had to walk in and tell my five-year-old son like, hey, your best friend is dead. Now, like, how do you tell a five-year-old that? You know like it was incredibly sad to do so, you know, and like there's cops all over my house. It looks like a fucking. You know, a murder happened at my house. So like all that shit's going on too. And uh, you know the cop the cops were being really cool and they let me go in and talk to my kid and I just, you know, I take a knee and I look at this little five-year-old and I'm like, fuck, I gotta you know I'm trying not to cry and I'm like, ooh, I gotta tell this little boy right now that his best friend, tobias Crabtree, is dead, cause those two hung out a ton. You know like that's who helped me and my wife out with raising my kid the first five years. And so, you know, I tell him his point blank as I can. You know brandon's already brought up that I'm just a straight shooter, and so I'm like yo dude, tobias crabtree, died in the pool this morning, like we don't know how, like he's, he's dead, you know. And he just looks at me. He's like all right, dad, you know, and I give him a hug and I couldn't take it. You know, like I just broke down right there I was bawling and he goes, he goes.
Speaker 3:This is in the five, he goes just a second, dad. He walks into the living room, he gets a piece of red construction paper and a marker out. He's a little artist, like he draws everything. So he draws this picture and the cop's sitting there, my wife and I are sitting there there, and he comes back over and he hands me this picture paper and he goes it's gonna be all right, dad. And he gives me this picture. It's a kid's drawing.
Speaker 3:Uh, it's a heart, a black line, just a, just a big heart about the size of a softball on a or baseball on a piece of paper. And then a line from that heart, you know, another black line out to a little circle. You know the circle is like a little bigger than a quarter. And then in that, from that heart, you know, another black line out to a little circle. You know the circle is like a little bigger than a quarter, and then in that little quarter is a little stick man and then he goes. Hey dad, you don't have to worry. It's like Tobias Crabstree will always be in your heart. And then he like followed the line with his finger and he goes and you can always think about him whenever you need to.
Speaker 3:So he points to the little little circles of brain. You know, he's like him at five years old. Five years old, yeah, and and that, thinking that there's real no difference in that man's energy being in my life now or where his physical presence is here, like he's still here with me. You know, like, don't get me wrong, I'd love for that guy to be drinking a beer with me tonight, like that'd be, great, but yeah, that's what. That's what comforts me, brandon.
Speaker 2:Good, that's dope. Obviously, not too many people are going to be in this position and ask somebody special for what comforts you, but that's why this is B to z and that's why I'm brandon. I'm always going to ask questions that uh need to be asked, not what you guys think is fucking cool about the military. I like the military and all that shit too, but like I like the individual, the special forces.
Speaker 2:That's cool, you know like badasses and all that stuff, but I consider myself a badass too, so you know um, let's keep it pushing. Let's keep it pushing um one of the things, well.
Speaker 4:I don't want to segue. Did you want to get back to?
Speaker 2:your schedule real quick, no, okay, um, one of the things I wanted to bring up was, uh, shop ownership and things that artists can do to help out a shop owner, and, and then I wanted to dive into your art after that. As far as repetition over talent, right, you get what I'm saying you know what I'm talking about Maybe.
Speaker 1:Or what you consider you specialize in too. We were kind of going back and forth. It seems like you specialize in a lot of different things.
Speaker 3:Well, now we're breaking the tattoo world down. Now you know, like the tattoo world in my, you know, roughly 30 years of experiencing it.
Speaker 1:Actually a little more than 30 years of experience.
Speaker 4:You know, just like everything, like it's one of our guarantees in life.
Speaker 3:Everything's going to change, and so I've watched this incredible amount of change happen with the tattoo world, some of it for better and some of it for worse, and so when I first got into tattooing, the person that was you know, quote, unquote the best was the person that could do any kind of style tattoo.
Speaker 4:Like you know, we're talking early 90s here, like so if you're working at a shop.
Speaker 3:There wasn't really appointment, only shops. That wasn't a thing. So if you're working at a tattoo shop, you're just hanging out in there when the person comes in to get tattooed. If they want a portrait, you can't do portraits, so then you just didn't make any money. If they come in and they wanted some tribal thing and you can't do tribal because you're too cool for it, then you don't make any money. If someone comes in and wants debbie on their fucking boob tattoo, like, and you can't draw up debbie, there's no google images. You know, like you need to know how to do script, uh, so you need to kind of know how to do everything. That's what you want.
Speaker 3:That was the goal is to be really good at everything and you know I've been able to watch that be the successful tattoo careers.
Speaker 3:Be good at everything but that changed you know, like that, with with technology and the internet and influence of instagram on the tattoo world, you started to watch people specialize. So here I'm an owner. You know, like tattooing myself which I don't consider myself a tattoo shop owner you know, like I'm not owning a tattoo shop to make money, like I'm not a business owner. If anything, I really suck at owning a business to make money. I want to tattoo with my friends and so early on I didn't want to have some shitty boss that was making the tattoo world suck for me, and so I just decided, hey, I have to be in charge of the shop, so I'll pay the bills and be in charge of the shop and we'll all work here as mutual as we can. And so I've had that philosophy the whole time. But the undertow of that philosophy has been I want clients to have good experiences, because, man, tattoo shops sucked in the early 90s and the 2000s and I don't know what the percentage is now I don't even know if it's half or more, but a lot of tattoo shops suck for the client to walk into, like it just sucks. It's not a good experience.
Speaker 3:Um, and I don't. I don't want that in the one building that I can be semi in control of. You know like I want my mom or sister or anybody that I know to be able to just walk into my tattoo shop, get a quality piece of artwork, have a fun experience and leave without my influence on it, know, and so I've always geared my shop more towards that and a place for myself to work as an artist than I have a tattoo business owner. So that's the way I think about the tattoo shop world and watching that, what, what do you specialize in? Um, at the end of the day, it's's still a job and you know tattooers like to act like there's some specialty, rare thing. But you're just a production artist. You're no different than the person at Disney sitting there coloring, you know, mickey Mouse's head in black. You know, because that's what they needed Like.
Speaker 3:You're just a worker Like I don't know how everybody got so cool in their different trades, but there's nothing cooler about a tattooer than a fucking plumber. Like the ego is a crazy ego. And it's fun, it's you know, if we get into natural selection, there's a real reason for it, right Like that's why, all of a sudden, if you're a male barber, you're cool somehow Now?
Speaker 3:you just cut hair dude. That's how you do, and if you're a tattooer, you're cool somehow. Now you just cut hair dude, that's all you do. And if you're a tattooer, you're just coloring on people and most of the time you're being told what to do. You know, I'm pretty lucky that I get a lot of leniency with my clients. I get to do a lot of what I want, but I'm still doing what they want. Like I might do the viking ship sleeve tattoo, how I want to do it, but they told me to do a viking sleeve ship. Like. I'm still some art bitch, like all the tattooers out there. Just realize you're just another art bitch, that's all you are.
Speaker 3:We're not fucking special there you go, there's fucking creative plumbers that have to like figure out how to put Right there. Just pick the trade that you like. Everybody wants to act like they're not cool or something and like that trade has people in it.
Speaker 4:that are craftsmen are really good at their form of art or the thing that they do they own it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they own it, you know, and like we need whatever those like jobs that we don't like way more than my job, like my job is really not important at all um, but it's funny how tattooers like to act like there's some royalty or some fucking special thing.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to say that. That's not that there is some tattooers out there that are a little special than other ones, that are like really good at what they do, but they're still not on some high horse. They're still not more important than the dude taking your trash out. Like I can go years without a tattooer, I can't go two weeks without the garbage man. Garbage man is more important than the best tattooer. It's just the fucking truth of it is. We get so caught up in thinking that these certain people are this certain job traits or this certain freedom that a tattoo artist's life does give me that I'm very grateful for that the garbage worker can't have.
Speaker 3:That doesn't mean that I'm any better than the garbage worker can't have that doesn't mean that I'm any better than the other, than the garbage worker. You know, freedom comes at a cost too though yeah, there's some tough sides to this too. You know why. Why do you think you have, you know, a countless amounts of famous rich people that commit suicide? You can have all the money and all the fame you want like oh, that doesn't equate.
Speaker 1:You're still a fucking human being with all the money and all the fame you want. Like, oh, that doesn't equate. You're still a fucking human being with all the problems up here between these, you know ears and that's why I don't understand why
Speaker 2:tattooers attach an ego onto something that is so free tattooing. If you approach it right, it's such a freedom thing. You know what I mean. You get to draw it in the fashion you want. You know what I mean. Sometimes you you get to kind of pick your schedule. Once you learn the trade, you can take it around the world. People go to a shop and then they get in this mentality and it's a box mentality. They're one thing. I am a tattooer, this is what I do. That's one of the things that I feel like I struggle with. When I worked here, Brian would be like you got to specialize struggle with when I worked here.
Speaker 3:Brian, be like gotta specialize, you gotta specialize.
Speaker 2:I didn't feel like I could specialize because there were so many good artists ahead of me that when it came, time to getting things like eating. You know everybody's eating off the same plate. It's like my crumbs don't look the same as their crumbs and it was rightfully so, because it's like a sports team. You know the best players get in first. You know know what I mean, because it's promoting the business.
Speaker 2:So I kind of kept my realm a little bit open just so I could catch more in my net and stuff like that. And now that I'm in my own, I'm trying to push more towards a style. But style is a hard thing within tattooing too. Either you got it or you don't your hand.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's repetition so in the 30 years I've seen going back to style, I've watched the the best style be the person that was well-rounded. And then we have a big change in the tattoo industry. Clients are able to steer the tattoo world a little bit more, and and and rightfully so uh, if you're a client and you want a portrait and you're a good client, like you want to do a little research and pick out the best portrait artist you can find, now you can do that, and so then what you have is people that specialize in something. Their market will gravitate towards them, and so, you know, I had an apprentice that I trained here, and I had an apprentice that I trained here and she really liked one style, and so I said you know, go for that style and that's all that you can do now, like that's all that that person does now. Is that one style and I started to watch that style of tattoo career be more successful is the one that does have a very specific genre or style that you're sticking into. And so as a job, just as a job it seems to be better to specialize in one area.
Speaker 3:I'm fortunate enough to work here with 10 other tattooers, and so I can watch what they do. And one of the guys here in the shop loves doing portraits and he does a lot of portraits and so I'm watching this guy do sometimes five portraits a week. I might do five portraits a year, and so then you can just look at the learning curve, you know like I'm gonna do five portraits a year, in one month he's gonna get four years of my training. It's a lot of practice. Of course he's going to be way better at portraits, and so I started learning. You know this is over a decade ago. I was like, wow, specializing is the way to go, because now the clients are looking for that specialized tattooer and the really good clients know that that specialized tattooer put a lot of time and dedication and that they're kind of a specialer thing and they'll pay a little bit more money for that.
Speaker 3:It's it's harder to do that kind of career, but that career exists, um I agree it takes a little minute to build that if you want to be really good at portraits, you have to portrait train, you have to really portrait train, and that or if you want to be really good at lettering, you got a letter train if you want to be really good at whatever the thing is you want to be really good at.
Speaker 3:You got to train in that you know, and, and that's what becomes the best money producer in the tattoo world. Um, I don't want to knock at all that I can do everything, because my roots still tell me like you want to be good at everything.
Speaker 3:But we live in a world right now where you can do anything. You can be a really good piano player or a really good artist, or learn how to have a podcast, or learn how to build a fucking lawnmower from scratch. It doesn't matter what you want to be good at, we have the avenue to do that. So now I almost feel like we have to like slow it down a little bit and pick the thing that you want to be good at and realize you don't get to do everything in life and I want to excel at that one thing.
Speaker 3:So when I go all the way back to sniper school, black and gray almost pin art you know, like what you can do with a ballpoint pen on a white piece of paper. That's my original art style. And you know, if you look around this room like that, that bird right there was drawn in 1997 and that's my original art style. And you know, if you look around this room like that, that bird right there was drawn in 1997 and that's the same style that I do now. So I just went back to my roots, which is this kind of more pen and ink, or in the tattoo world they'll call it black worker style.
Speaker 2:Um, but you're big on healing too. Um, he's from the lineage of if you don't put a tattoo and if it's not going to heal properly. When I first started working here, I did a lot of fine line tattoos. That was where the industry was hitting. He used to tell me open up those gaps, man. You're going to have 10 years of tattoos following behind you, all blurred out and stuff like that 100%. Some of that shit happened. I'm seeing them now. But Ryan tattoos for longevity. He does not. Hence the reason. I think that shapes a lot of the reason why he does what he does. Portraits don't last as long. If they did, you would probably do more of them, wouldn't you?
Speaker 3:yeah, I have you know. So, 27 years of tattooing, thousands of tattoos, tens of thousands of tattoos under my belt. Like I've seen a lot of tattoo work I've done that, I don't I'm not proud of it.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, when I look back at it cause I for the longest time, the more of my career I was the you can do everything guy, and so when someone just walked in and they wanted whatever they wanted, I just tattooed it on them Like exactly how they want. But then I see those tattoos five years later, ten years later usually by five years, you already know like it's going to be crap or it's not.
Speaker 3:and as an artist uh, like I see my art on people and I don't like the way it looks like I didn't do that just for money. I also did it because I like to create things and I don't like the way some of those creations look. But then I'll look at like close friend of mine that I tattooed 27 years ago, year one of tattooing. He's got a big tribal piece down his whole leg. You know it looks phenomenal still. Yeah, over 20 years old. It was nearing 30 or 30 years old. I still show it to people. I'll be like, look at this tattoo I did when I'm hanging out with them.
Speaker 3:Like, look at this tattoo yeah, and so I'm not at all here to say that you know a full, fully colored, realistic tattoo that's rendered. I don't think anyone's gonna argue with me that that's the tattoo that won't look the best in 20 or 30 years. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be getting done right now. There's lots of people that want that artwork. It's phenomenal. Like it's amazing to look at. Like I enjoy looking at those style of tattoos. I just don't like looking at them five years down the road. I don't like being held accountable. No one's holding any tattooers accountable. That's the other problem. Like everyone's judging tattooers off of their Instagram feed. Like, and I can do a real crappy tattoo and get my $3,000 Sony camera out and take a really good photo of that it's going to look nice, I guarantee it.
Speaker 3:But that's not what it's gonna look like five years from now or three years from now or maybe even when it heals, and so that accountability is what I hold myself to and so that has a brand is totally correct, like that's been one of the biggest things pushing me in that direction. I still love color, you know, like I've even started putting pops of color in my tattoos, because if you have a tattoo that's built off of black and black has carbon in it and for some reason the body keeps that in there, you know, we can go into all those reasons, but the body keeps carbon in the black ink, it keeps that longer and it keeps it in a finer line, and so it looks nicer in 10 years. But that doesn't mean you can Really good portrait guys. I even see now that you look at the tattoo and it just looks like a photograph. But you'll see that they've snuck black in the right edges and corners and profiles and stuff, so that that tattoo looks pretty good in 10 years.
Speaker 3:Like, maybe the skin tones are a little bit subdued or the blue in the eyes isn't as blue as it used to do, but you still can tell that's fucking uncle Frank. You know like, if it's done well, so there's ways to do that, but I'm pushing my mind to the extreme of longevity. You know like I think the black work style is. What does that?
Speaker 2:I would say too like as far as style and your style, I think it's in the middle of a transition right now. Um, you definitely do illustrative work. Right, you say it's illustrative work, but I think you know, with the new painting that you've added into the bag of tricks, that that's gonna push your art one more time. Wouldn't you say once you feel like you've got it there?
Speaker 3:or yeah, yeah, hopefully. My art is always changing. Like it sounds terrible to me, like I think of musicians. Sometimes you know and pick your favorite band and their favorite songs and they'll have to sing that favorite song for 20, their whole entire career, like 20, 30 years. You know, like you still see these old singers going out and they're just still singing that hit tune, which I'm grateful for because I love that hit tune, but as an artist, like damn that would suck to be doing the exact same thing for decades.
Speaker 2:That's artistry anymore. You know what I mean. I believe artistry is the act of creating something new and pushing it into an uncharted realm. You know, it should be on the. Yes, there's technical art, but artistry the act of creation. You know, the embodiment of art is something that comes from nothing, in a direction that is new for me, you know. And then, if it's not that, then you're just going through the techniques, you know. And if you're practicing your drawings, when you approach a drawing, that is out of your realm and you're you're shooting at something that you could.
Speaker 2:There's a failure attached to it. There could be a failure. I believe that is art Without a portion of failure. I feel like there is no art but, uh, your japanese brush paintings. What is this style of painting called?
Speaker 3:well, first we got to figure out what art is.
Speaker 2:So you like that?
Speaker 3:okay, I'll agree with you, yeah uh zach, you got a definition of art.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm realizing there's so many different mediums for art.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a hard word to describe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even I guess going into diving in the audio world I've never done it before. There's an art to it, yeah. So so many different things can fall into that category?
Speaker 3:Exactly, yeah. So for me, art is something that category? Exactly, yeah. So for me, art is something that invokes emotion in somebody. That's why you can just see some old tree and be like, damn, that thing's beautiful, Don't put any work into that, it's just an old tree, but it invokes an emotion in you. I used to think it was something, something that you saw beauty in, but not everybody doesn't see beauty in that same old tree, you know. So that can't be the definition I think. You know, like my working definition is art is something that invokes emotion in somebody yeah, that can happen through sound.
Speaker 3:Hell yeah, like art literally can be everywhere, like we're one of these creatures experiencing consciousness, you know, and like art is one of those things that we do, very different than uh lower like I'm like using the word lower, but like lower life forms, you know, like you don't see, uh, bacteria making art, but you do see birds, like there's some, like we all got Netflix, like I can say here a name off some documentaries maybe to go watch. Like you can watch animals create art and they're doing it for the same reason we're doing it. They want to like make the other sex like them, you know, like or survival sometimes.
Speaker 3:I can't think of time I had art for survival, but I'm sure that's out there. But you watch birds, you know. Make these really pretty nests so that the other one, you know, like, like there's. There's art all over the place. You know, it's not just humans don't get to own art. I guess that's what I'm saying, you know are you competitive within your art? Um competitiveness for me is is a road, okay, so.
Speaker 3:I'm trying not to have that, like I have a obviously a competitive nature to a fault. Like I literally think I can fight any other grown man in the world and I will beat them. You know like and I've tried that out and I've lost a few times, you know, but it doesn't mean that that's not still in my head Like it's still in my head that you give me a rifle and you a rifle and you put us both at the end of the street. I'm going to win. I'm pretty confident.
Speaker 3:I'm going to kill you all the way to my like I'll get myself killed trying to prove that, like that's a roadblock in my life is is that competitiveness? And so whenever I see competitiveness in my drawing, which is, or my art, whenever I see competitiveness in my drawing or my art, which is all internal and with myself, no one around me is trying to do my art better than me or something. Yeah, I try to just recognize that and then I'm not trying to get rid of competitiveness or get rid of ego, because they also have a space in your life that they're really powerful. Like I don't want to be some little wimpy kid that sits in the corner and just accepts life for how it is, but it's my ego that gets me out of that corner and makes me want to do these things. You know, I just gotta be able to observe that ego and not let that or him get out of control, take over you yeah, so if I'm competitive with my artwork, then, then I'm doing something a little bit wrong.
Speaker 2:Is it hard to look? I know the style of art you're looking at. You told me that people before you would copy the master's work and then, when they got to a position where they could do better than they would do their own. Am I bastardizing this?
Speaker 3:No, we're, we're, you know. We're talking about the like specifically in the art world tattooing and so what I watch, you know, is us tattooers just copy other tattooers. We copy flash, and then maybe we want to like, broaden our horizons so that we'll draw like our own versions of the copied flash, but you're still just copying the old stuff. And then we'll broaden our horizons a little bit more and like, ok, well, what were, what were the tattooers or artists doing before, and whatever, your year is 1980.
Speaker 3:And we'll go back to like the early 1900s with tattoo flash, you know, and then that's kind of where people stop with tattoo flash, you know, and then that's kind of where people stop, you know. Then they'll diverge from there and look at more modern artists and, you know, copy a lot of Greek and Roman, you know, like European art. We'll copy a lot of that. And then we'll copy a lot of old tattoo flash and designs. And then a section of the tattoo world likes to jump over to the Japanese tattooing because they have a longer lineage and they've, quite frankly, figured out a lot of things that we haven't figured out yet, and so we'll copy a lot of the old Japanese tattooers, which is what the early 1900s tattooers were doing.
Speaker 3:You know, umbrella statement here, but in general that's kind of what's happening. And so to include me, you know, so like I, I copied other tattooers and then I want to know what they were copying. And you know, like now I go back and look at old flash and I'll find this like famous tattooer that everybody knows their name. And then I'll be looking through their designs and I'll be like, oh, that son of a bitch copied that from this old, like 1800s illustration book. And then I'll pull the old 1800s illustration or 17 or 1600s and I'll be like, look, there it is. Yeah he traced it.
Speaker 3:Like we have some designs we're using in the tattoo world right now that I'm like, oh, that's a tracing from this etching from this time period. And then guess what happens when you go back to those etchings they were copying someone before you know. And then you start to get back into, like your beginning artists that were figuring you know, like renaissance, and actually renaissance were copying so before renaissance. You start getting like maz at all, saying there's not original art. Right now I'm just saying we're doing in the tattoo world just copying, copying, copying. And when I go all the way back so I follow the japanese art back because that goes back the farthest that actually the japanese art is incredibly influenced by Chinese art. So what do I do? You know, like maybe this is getting answered some of your questions earlier, like how do I get to the top of these things? You know, like how do I get to the top of the fight world?
Speaker 3:I was in a gym and Dan Henderson came in there and he was the only dude that can kind of kick my ass. Like was doing pretty good with everybody else in there. Like there were some other guys in that gym that I had a hard time with, not dan henderson, would just manhandle me. Oh, and so that happened one time and I was like hi, I'm brian foster, like I want to train with you. I don't know what you're doing. You know, go to find out. You know the guy's in a, you know an olympian, you know like, like he's an Olympic wrestler and he already holds like a bunch of titles and so he's kind of intense too.
Speaker 2:He's like. I saw him at Tobias. It's not for you, huh.
Speaker 3:It's just Dan to me.
Speaker 4:But, his temperature was a little bit.
Speaker 2:I was like OK, cuz got a little edge to him. I didn't expect that you know some people are like, oh, I knock him them out and they're like mr approachable, because you don't necessarily want to go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did it so, so, just following things to their end, you know, like follow up, like finding out, where does this come from? And so if I go way down the art world, like you got caveman paintings and pictographs, and so I'm not quite wanting to do that, but the step that I can figure out after that is brush painting. So, to answer your question, what I call my artwork is brush painting. Um, and it has a lot of you know, it's all asian influence. Uh, china has the most brush painting there. Um, and then and then that art form.
Speaker 3:So let's say, in the tattoo world, we'll see what a lot of koi, fish, lotus flowers, cherry blossoms, dragons. You know like there's all these little, all these motifs. You know peony flower, chrysanthemum, yeah, all the flowers. And when you go all the way back you'll find that what were the chinese brush painting scholars painting? Though that's what they were painting. You know like they're painting these, you know these things that we now use in the tattoo world. And so I wasn't, I hadn't figured out what brush painting was, but I was like, oh so if I want to draw a peony flower, I can, I can trace or observe real life and recreate that, like I can stare at something and, for the most part, just remake it happen on paper.
Speaker 4:Uh, and so I can draw a peony flower that way so that's just realism.
Speaker 3:That's one way of doing that art. The other way that you see most peony flowers. I'm just picking a peony flower. So we have a starting point. Most peony flowers you see in the tattoo world are just copies of other tattoos or the tattooer will draw a peony flower like he saw another tattoo tattooer draw it.
Speaker 3:But if you really want to create a peony flower in the most original form and the original way to do it, you do it on rice paper with a brush and ink and it's fucking hard it's fucking hard, it's not like there's no room for mistakes, but once you train enough, you can subconsciously sit down and just just like when you're driving a car and you're going to make a left hand in an intersection, your, your brain's not saying I have a 2 000 pound vehicle, I got the left blinker on the left and the right sides of the pedestrian crosswalk are empty. I need to keep an eye on the cross traffic to make sure they don't start coming. You're not doing any of that. You're like man, what drink am I getting at starbucks today? That's what you're doing with your actual cognitive thinking mind. You're like you're thinking about your starbucks order, but you're driving this 2 000 pound vehicle through space that can murder and kill people muscle memory now, yeah I think like what I found out.
Speaker 3:You know like as I've dove in deeper and deeper into this art form is I can create the peony flower like I'm driving the car. Now I can just subconsciously lay those petals down on paper, and when you can do that, there's just some spontaneity that happens. That is more natural that I. It's hard to copy it, you can't make it happen. You can't force that to happen. It's hard to copy it, you can't make it happen. You can't force that to happen. And so you know I'm going to go deeper into brush painting. You know, like Korean, japanese and Chinese brush painting, that I study a lot of and I work with two masters right now, just learning more from them, like my, my Dan Henderson's of the brush painting world.
Speaker 3:That's how I got into that art form. And you know like I got into that art form from following tattooing back, from wanting to. Just you know, I want to be the. I want to be the best peony flower maker. If I'm going to do that, and I think the best way, the coolest looking tattoo that I see is one that's created from that spontaneity, and you can only do that by being a master of the brush.
Speaker 3:And that's what old Japanese woodblock printers were copying, and so the Japanese woodblock printers were copying those brush painted peony flowers. And then your early tattooers were copying those woodblock prints, like the Great Wave that we all know. That's a woodblock print. And so they're copying those woodblock prints, like the great wave that we all know that's a woodblock print. And so they're copying those woodblock prints. And then we've just kept doing that and kind of forgot where it all came from, which is totally fine. Let's change an evolution and it's great. And you know like I'll even mess around with AI now and see what AI can make for a peony flower, Like no problem, Like the whole world is my oyster. I'm not in a box for me.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, when I have a question for me, sometimes when I do my own work, I don't appreciate it as if, as if I did somebody else's work and looked at the same painting. So if I paint something that somebody else did that I really like and then paint something that's original for me, it has a hundred percent of different feeling. How do you respect your original stuff, like your reduplicated stuff, or do you?
Speaker 3:tease that question out a little bit for me what are you, what are you actually asking right there?
Speaker 2:when you, when you put your brush on a paper and you're coming from a place of unknown, you're just creating, do you get the same appreciation out of that piece? When you create and you say you get what you want out of that piece, or you reduplicate a piece from somebody else, do you have the same appreciation for your work as you do for the, the, the artist, the master artist work. And that's comes from me, because when I draw my original tattoo designs, they'd never seem to hit Like I'm drawing somebody else's design or reduplicating somebody else's design.
Speaker 3:So you're asking.
Speaker 2:Does your original pieces do the same as when you're duplicating a master's pieces?
Speaker 1:Or do they all have their own separate?
Speaker 3:feel to it well, I'm not duplicating master's pieces that that is a technique for becoming a better artist and I do do that and I think that's a technique. But I think what you're asking is like, if I see a master's work in a museum and then whatever I think is my masterpiece, do I hold them at the same weight? Is that what you're asking? Like, do I think they're both as good as each other?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, like you're doing a tiger and you're practicing tigers, you pick the artists of the tigers you like, you attack one specific tiger to try and make it look exactly. You come very, very close. You're like, ooh, that shit felt good.
Speaker 4:Now, on the other hand, you know what today I'm going to?
Speaker 2:I'm going to draw a frog, but I'm going to do my own style on it. Do you get that same level of appreciation out of your own work? Cause I don't. I don't get it. I find it very like I get more of a high when I'm doing somebody else's like, looking at somebody else's stuff, and I'm mirrored or I've gotten close to that and I struggle with my original concepts a little bit more as an artist.
Speaker 3:I'm, I'm uh, my brain's looking at it from two different lenses, like my tattoo work and then my brush painting.
Speaker 4:You know, like those are my two. Those are my two different lenses, like my tattoo work and then my brush painting. You know, like those are my two.
Speaker 3:Those are my two different visual things. Uh, I'm hard on myself, just like I think most artists are. They want to keep getting better. So, uh, I've gotten to a point with my tattoo work where I do have pieces that I'm really happy with and like I don't think, like maybe there's always room for improvement, but I think that's a really good tattoo and it's right on par with X tattoo or his name.
Speaker 3:That, I think, is really good, um, but I see shortcomings always there and I want to improve my tattoo work always.
Speaker 3:So my tattoo work, I'm always trying to improve that. And you, if I do an eagle one day, like I'll look at it and be like, all right, I can figure I can do these things different next time and make that even better, um, and when I'm copying another, like tattooers work, you know, like trying to make something similar to what they're doing, which I'm trying not to do that so much anymore. Now. It's more, I want to do a rose tattoo, you know, and like I see ex-artist tattoo or non-tattoo, or like how they do a leaf, and like I'll be like, oh, I'm gonna try that style out.
Speaker 3:You know, like that happens here in my own shop, which I feel really grateful for. You know, like I'll be like, oh, like you know, we'll talk about it here. We're like, how'd you do that leaf? And then maybe I'll add that leaf into my rose next time and see, see how that, how that feels, um, and that never feels as good as like when you look at someone else's art, you know, and like you don't know the whole story and how it's created, you just fucking really like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's always hard to have I guess it's easier to appreciate somebody else's piece um, and like I don't think you're doing that either, Like I'm not.
Speaker 3:If I'm going to look at someone else's art, I'm looking at people that are better than me, or or they excel in this one area more than me. Like all right there's. Maybe I really love the way my skulls look and I've gotten a little bored with it, Like that happens. So I'll look at other artists tattooers and non-tattooers and want to do my skull kind of like them, and maybe when I do that, maybe I achieve it and maybe I don't.
Speaker 2:When you approach a painting, is it from an analytical, artistic point of view, or is it from an emotional point of view, because you have both sides of the mind? I know you research, so there's an analytical part to everything you do.
Speaker 1:But how do you make sure that that emotion trumps the analytical aspect of it.
Speaker 3:And is it hard to switch between the two sides, the emotional side and the analytical side. Zach's very analytical.
Speaker 3:Well it's uh neuroscience has proved that if you can train both sides of those, that of your mind, then you have access to more of that. So they, you know you're not in your head. Yes, you probably already seen the same netflix shows I've seen. But you know like they'll show the imagery of a mind and ask a person a question. That's a real critical thinker and they'll watch. You know, on our we have amazing modern equipment now so we can watch how the front of someone's brain lights up when they're asking that, answering that question, and you'll get another person that's maybe an emotional thinker.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about you specifically though B.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I've been messing with EMDR too and that kind of lockslocks, that potential. But yeah, like what is your?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm trying to get in your mind. Yeah, you never let anybody in your mind, you never give out shit for free people just don't listen.
Speaker 1:I'm always here to give yeah, so we're trying to get everybody else. We're not strangers, though strangers don't get shit you feel me, we're like we're all set.
Speaker 2:Anyways, go ahead.
Speaker 3:I think I know more pointedly how you want this question answered or what you're looking for. And so we've done a funny thing here in our society and we've decided like if you know, if Zax decides to like clean something, someone gets a cut, he cleans their wound out and puts a bandage on it. Do you call him a doctor?
Speaker 4:Fuck no, not damn doctor.
Speaker 3:Right, you did clean a wound out, you did a little bit of medical thing, like, but you're not a doctor, right, like you need a certain amount of training to be a doctor. You need to understand and like, and I'm like I don't even understand fully what a doctor has to meet in college criteria to become a doctor. I think they're failing in some parts there, but we won't get into that. You know and so, but you still don't get the name. You don't get the label doctor until you have proved yourself in certain areas. You don't even have to be an A in all the areas because C's get degrees. So sorry, a lot of the doctors that are doing surgery on you have c's yeah, so I interview all my doctors.
Speaker 3:I don't realize that's happening, but you can pass on all of them, uh, and so in the art world, we've decided if, uh, I just draw a little squiggle on a piece of paper or I make something that looks like a tree, you're an artist. Right, you're a doctor, and so you know like those are the extremes there. But if someone does art through high school, you know like everyone around them mom, dad, aunts, uncles, friends, everyone is like you're an artist, you're an artist, artist, you're an artist, you're an artist, you're a doctor, you're a doctor, you're a doctor. And that goes right to people's heads and they stop training, they just start doing whatever that thing that got. And we can go all the way back to natural selection and how your mind works and how we want to make the people around us happy. And so, young you know, quote-unquote artists get that title and then they run with that and they don't actually know what the fuck they're doing.
Speaker 3:I'm one of those guys. Like, I am that artist. You know like I thought my shit didn't stink until I was like 40 or something. You know like doing art.
Speaker 1:I was like, yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 3:Like, watch this, I can do these things. But as my perspective shift, I started realizing like, oh, wow, like there's a lot of art that I don't understand, I don't know about it. And so, with that kind of thinking, I like to be, I want to be an artist. That's like the doctor, like I understand the facets of things and so if I'm going to recreate it, I'm a visual artist. So if I'm going to recreate that for you, I want to do it correctly. I want to do a little bit of research. So, as a tattoo artist, if you, if, if we, me and I want to take on your drawing and it fits my wheelhouse, because I'm really lucky now to be able to tell a lot of people, no, thank you, because I'm trying to specialize in things. Like I'm not going to be the best guy for a portrait, so I'm going to tell you hey, these other guys I know are really good for portraits and you're going to get a better tattoo out of that. Like I'm fine with not being the best at everything, you can't be. And so my artwork I wanted to be researched and anatomically correct. Like the anatomical correctness of visual art is getting lost. Like the anatomical correctness of visual art is getting lost. You have all of these artists that you know use that term and you know I'm not. I'm not trying to like just kind of blanket state me here Like I love abstract artwork. That's my favorite actually.
Speaker 3:Because when I go into a museum I can't judge it. I can't judge it analytically, I can't be't be like, oh, the perspective on that elbow is incorrect. Or look at that tattoo pinup. Oh, you want to know why the hands are in the hair. Or you want to know why the hands are behind the butt in your pinup tattoo. Yeah, look down at your arm right now.
Speaker 3:Uh, it's because your tattooer doesn't know how to draw hands right. And you want to know why the face looks like two little dots or it looks like a bunch of garbage now, because it's been five years. It's because your tattoo artist doesn't know how to make faces. You know, like there's ways to do that. Like, like there's ways to do it if you're a good artist and so before you start drawing all these things especially in the tattoo world for clients, just know what the fuck you're doing. Like, if you're going to take on drawing a human hand, you know like everyone, get on your phone right now. Look at all the human hands. I look like little penises and and and hot dog fingers and shit. Like it's terrible. I don't want that happening in my studio. I don't want that happening around me.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know. So first, first.
Speaker 3:So my tattooers and myself like do some damn training. Like be anatomically correct, know how to draw a tiger's face, like, stop all this fucking cartoon bullshit that we put these labels on, like oh, it's neo-traditional this and that, and I was like that's because you don't know how to draw correctly. Like look down at your tiger tattoo right now. Does it have black tips on the ends of its ears? Because all tigers in the real world do Right, you know like there's a very specific markings on animals and birds Like and we do a ridiculous job in the tattoo world and the clientele accepts it.
Speaker 3:And so art to me, especially when we're talking about tattooing, should be anatomically correct. And if you're going to vary from that, it should be because you wanted to, because you're such a highly trained artist that you're going to vary from that, it should be because you wanted to, because you're such a highly trained artist that you're deciding to go into the abstract, you're deciding to make things blurry or exaggerated or not proportions correctly, like. You're doing that because you want to, not because you have to, because you lack the artistic ability to actually create it. So, for me, if I want to wear this name as an artist, I want to be a really good doctor.
Speaker 4:I want to be really well-trained.
Speaker 2:I think it's pivotal too, within the position that you hold, because you set the standard of what comes out of the shop. You know, if you have a loose eye, right Like when someone comes in and I want this tattoo and the tattoo is absolutely shit, you're like, oh fuck, this is going to be easy because they have a horrible idea of what a good tattoo is, you know. So I think that's huge and pivotal for shop owners to have a keen eye, not only in within tattooing as a whole. You know, have a modern touch, a sharp thought on how things should be executed. Research, because it determines what kind of work is coming out of the shop. If Brian has a loose eye, then five people behind him that tattoo under him are going to start cutting corners you know what.
Speaker 2:I mean, and you know, when I worked at Elizabeth Street, that was the the hustle, the pace that you had to keep up with. Obviously there's an amazing artist in here, but you know, that's why a lot of people don't won't get the opportunity to come here is because, as a tattooer, they just want to sit up and just draw when it's time to draw. When you come to Elizabethabeth street, you're asked to approve upon your artistic uh abilities.
Speaker 2:you know what I mean, because somebody is paying attention in his own world for research and detailed and all that stuff which it's.
Speaker 2:It's really, really good it's sometimes it's hard you know what I mean to be in a shop with a shit ton of good artists and like everybody's just doing all these cool things around you and it's like fuck, it could be a little bit overwhelming. But if you really just focus on you and then take one thing at a time and you know drips fill in the bucket, then it's very beneficial to an artist's career when I came to Elizabeth Street.
Speaker 3:I actually had to apprentice again.
Speaker 2:He allowed me to continue to tattoo, but there was just certain things that I didn't have within my tattooing that were pivotal. And when I got there, you know, the first thing he had me do it was kind of like a test was anatomy. And then he had me do a bee exercise and that wasn't about anatomy, and he had me drawing with shapes and that was about anatomy. And then we attack textures and then line work and then hand positioning and stuff like that. And then that, you know, without that second apprenticeship I would be nowhere near where it is I am now and to this day. You know, a lot of the time we hold on to what people say, you know, when you're learning and stuff like that, a lot of the things I have the same rules as he has, because that's what an apprenticeship is.
Speaker 2:You know, like I was not his apprentice, um, because he was like nah, you know, he wasn't putting my name on me at that shit, I was a little wild, you know. And you were far enough along, like you you know what I mean, like, and that's fine you know some people you like. All right, you know what I mean, and something like now I'll help you.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, like so he helped me out and you know, I got to a position of where I didn't have to be watched as closely anymore and he continued to watch me over the years anyway, just because I was newer in my and I wasn't necessarily supposed to be in a shop of this prestige at an early career. I remember coming from the other shop that I was at.
Speaker 2:Everybody told me I was like, oh, you're not going to make it, You're not going to make it. What the fuck are you doing? You're going over there. There goes your career, you know. And that actually lit a fire under my ass to fucking get after it. And then just being one, thing I am is an information whore, so I will just sit in a room and just fucking take everything from everybody.
Speaker 3:I'm just like that's free, that's free.
Speaker 2:Let me go ahead and fill these pockets up.
Speaker 3:And he's a wealth of knowledge and the people that he surrounded himself with.
Speaker 2:He's very picky. Our wealth of knowledge as well. Um, michael McCaskill, jim or die Darla guys, look these people up, they're all fire, they tattoo me and they're my mentors and people that I call. Thank you, you know. Thank you for that, for letting me come work at Elizabeth Street, for, you know, putting me through that second apprenticeship.
Speaker 2:A lot of people don't get to thank their mentors and the people that they've gone through Like that is the difference with me and that emotional shit I was talking about. I always say thank you, I'm always going to tap in on it, you know? Yeah, it was huge. I remember he put me through lettering seminars at conventions to help me heat brand and you need to specialize, and I was hardheaded as fuck.
Speaker 3:I was hardheaded as fuck Like nah, I'm trying to do it all, Like nah B, that's not the way this shit is going, and he allowed me to be an artist which was cool, which was cool At the end of the day, he had his sense, his two senses, a lot of the time. It made sense At the time I was not trying to hear that shit.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like that's how it goes right With good information.
Speaker 2:Like yeah right, but it was pivotal to where I am today. Proper tools in the beginning and a proper foundation opens you up to another world of progression, and I feel like that's what I got. I got that second iteration of an apprenticeship from somebody who actually cared a little bit more. The other guys didn't really give a fuck about me, you know what I mean. So he actually took a little bit of interest in me, which was dope, and it, you know it, made all the difference in my career I had to be vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Though, too, I had to express a whole lot of humility. What people don't understand is it's like you're drawing something and then it comes in and then we critique the shit out of it. And this is brian, you know it's not. The first sentence might be oh, that looks like shit, and that is the world of tattooing. You know what I mean.
Speaker 4:It's better coming from Brian than my client, I got to tattoo it.
Speaker 1:You know that's any career you choose, I feel like you when you get into it, you better be willing to humble yourself, because you're not. You're not the expert in that field.
Speaker 2:Talk about something that's dying right. Exactly, you know people that get into it and you tell them something about their designs and you know you got a chip on the shoulder.
Speaker 1:He was talking earlier. You got a chip on your shoulder for something good, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:He was talking earlier about his apprentice and saying, oh you know, she takes instruction well and doesn't fire back with an auto response. That's another episode I have coming up called auto responses.
Speaker 4:I was an auto response guy.
Speaker 2:I had to explain everything and why I did it, because logically I'm like, oh yeah, this makes sense. I attach my emotions to this line Like, yeah, this is where it needs to go. He doesn't give a fuck about that shit. It's about the overall design and if it's aesthetically pleasing, based off of the formulas that you know, and it took me a minute to kind of separate my emotions and what an artist is.
Speaker 2:Stop trying to be an artist and and learn and just be. Be ready for their journey. You know, everybody gets into a tattoo artist or tattoo shop becomes a tattoo. I'm an artist. Now the fuck you are. I remember I used to hate people. I don't know. There's only a few artists around here. And I would never ask if this is me or not, because I don't want my feelings hurt.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:But he would also give me the information of what it is that he felt was true artistry, and that was Repetition Beats Tower all day long. And that was one of the things that I got to watch as I left Elizabeth street. He had kind of just started fucking painting and then I saw the evolution from a distance and I was like, and then he put up a post with Cortese and I thought it was to me.
Speaker 2:It was so pinpoint I know, that's just what you go. I'm like oh, that shit is for me. And it was just like oh yeah, fucking talent, or uh, hard work and repetition beats talent all day long. And it was something I would fight him about but now I've had a visual representation of what 10 years of painting now, yeah, talent, the name given to hard work and dedication, exactly and sometimes for you to understand things, it takes people to blow it up.
Speaker 2:You know, blow that shit up in front of your face real quick, and I feel like Brian does that for me a little bit. I'm one of those people that I enjoy a straight shooter Cause I don't want to hear a fucking long story and just fucking get to the point. You know what I mean, so that's why we've always done so well. Your artistry is really good B. I've always been in your work. My favorite tattoo by you is a chess piece with the illustrative piece on that Mexican dude.
Speaker 3:I got another one you're talking about yeah, he's solid ass river sticks the bow from the cross. That shit is tight as fuck.
Speaker 2:I will find that on Instagram and I will repost that for you guys, so you guys see what I'm talking about. He's working on a back piece right now. That's absolutely dope the Medusa one that shit looks good and I'm just excited about your artistry B. You're definitely somebody I wanted to have on. There's so many avenues that we could talk about, so it was kind of hard.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had no idea what we were going to talk about today. Right, I feel like we did a good job.
Speaker 1:We had a lot of different questions and a lot of different things, but we didn't want to put you in a box. Yeah, yeah, right, right.
Speaker 2:And you know, I know you're well-read, I know you read in all different types of directions and stuff like that Within our show. We have a portion on the show that's called a roundup. You want to tell them about that, actually. So so. I do want to wrap it up but, I do want to hear.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's some nuggets in his day to day.
Speaker 3:We don't got to wrap this up. I can take a bathroom break.
Speaker 4:I want to get that day to day.
Speaker 1:What is? What is? What does that look like?
Speaker 3:First I got to tell Brandon does that look like to you? First I gotta tell brandon, thank you for saying everything that you just said, like I appreciate man to man. I appreciate that it's really nice to hear. And then there's no way that I can take credit like not even half of all the credit for what elizabeth street is. Uh, especially in the art world, because I'm held accountable here just as much as I hold the other guys accountable here. And if you know, just go look at this. If you're interested in the art world, because I'm held accountable here just as much as I hold the other guys accountable here, and if you know, just go look at this.
Speaker 3:If you're interested in the tattoo stuff, like the people that I work with here, keep me in check, cause they're, you know I'm out, I'm out dabbling with, you know, brush painting and all other kinds of stuff, and these guys are here just hitting it hard with tattooing, like tattooing, tattooing, tattooing and and they're the ones studying the other tattooers and studying what's going on. And so I'm grateful and learn a lot from the crew here. And they hold me accountable Like they're the one, like I, when I'm doing artwork, I'm like, ooh, I gotta make sure I wonder what this person will think. You know, like I gotta do a good job and you know I'm fortunate enough, like here, like I have someone to bounce my stuff off of. So when I'm creating the sleeve, like I just open that door and walk in the other room. It doesn't matter which one of them are in there, they're all awesome.
Speaker 3:And you know, like they're fields and like I value their opinions, like I value Brandon's opinion, like I've gone to of Brandon, and like hey, does this look right to you? Because just cause like I'll tout myself as being a pretty good artist, I'm not the best like at all. I am crazy, always learning, like in in the brush painting world. You know, like not going to be a surprise for you, brandon, but I'm writing an article now for the Sumi society of America as a quarterly journal, about brush painting and I'm writing an article on the 10 elements of composition for them. Like I'm always learning, and in the art world it never ends. That's dope. The learning should never end. It's the beauty of the field of tattooing. It's the beauty of what life is like how's your writing going?
Speaker 3:I know that was a topic of interest for writing's fun, but it's uh, it's not my forte like I enjoy doing it, but uh, if I put too much energy into that, it takes away the energy I want in other parts of my life um yeah and then to answer zach's question uh
Speaker 3:I don't pull this off every day but I have a morning routine so I like to wake up with no alarm, which means I need to just get enough sleep and be eating healthy. And then when I wake up, I like to go have a meditation, which can mean a lot of different things to a lot of people. I say meditations like the word exercise. If you ask a ballerina that's 10 and an NFL football player what exercises, they're going to give you two very true stories of what exercises and they're very different.
Speaker 1:So achieving their own goals.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you know, like I do my form of meditation, which don't mind breaking down and talking about that, and then from there it's straight into a workout. I try to work out seven days a week. 20 minutes, only 20 minutes Still hitting it. Yeah, I'm relaxing bro Well, when you start learning more about our brains and our bodies, you start to learn that the body is a little bit more in charge than the mind is, and so if you can keep the body happy, it helps produce all the things that make your mind happy.
Speaker 4:It's a part of it.
Speaker 3:It's a big part of it, but it's only a part of it. So you've got to be exercising every day, and that doesn't need to be any special forces, crazy MMA workout stuff. It could be 20 minutes of stretching, 20 minutes of of wim hof breathing exercises, 20 minute walk, 20 minutes of whatever you do to get your body working. You know, and sometimes during that week you should probably sweat or whatever your workout like, break a sweat, and so I try to knock that out early in the day. Even though that's not my favorite time to work out, I like to work out later in the day. Even though that's not my favorite time to work out, I like to work out later in the day.
Speaker 3:But if you want to be successful in life, you have to take the things that you hold the most important, and you got to do those first.
Speaker 3:And so you know my personal happiness is what radiates out to the people that are the closest to me, and so the better care I take of Brian Foster, the better care I'm taking of the people around me, and so I got to take selfishly, I got to take really good care of myself.
Speaker 3:So before I can go to work and do good tattoos or do any of that.
Speaker 3:I have to have taken care of myself first, and so for me it's mental health, then my physical health, and then I move on with the day from there. And I've set myself up really good, like I have an acre of property and like I've turned that whole thing into a giant garden. I got some chickens running around and so after my workout I stroll outside and I hopefully have I usually have an hour before I have to head to work there and my non-tattoo days. That's the rest of my day. You know like I'll hang out with my kid, hang out with the wife, do some gardening, house chores, paint draw, answer some emails. Like you know, I got my list, just like everybody else, of all the things that needs to get done, and that list is never ending. You know like you'll never get everything done that you'd want to achieve, so it's being able to hold that weight of all the things you want to do or that need to get done and be able to turn the volume down and just enjoy right now Like enjoy today.
Speaker 3:So that's kind of how my daily routines go.
Speaker 1:I know. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. I knew I knew it was going to be a nugget. I knew I knew it was going to be uh, you know words, smart, smart way to spend the day. Yeah, uh, getting into this roundup you do leave quite an impression on people around you. Uh, when we interviewed the other, zach Zach Peacock, he said, uh, you helped him adapt to change because you kept moving him around in different studios. Yeah, he said you kept saying not that this is going to be your quote, but he said your quote that he likes to remember is death, taxes and change. What is that? So what does that mean? From him?
Speaker 3:I mean Zach's an awesome character character I'll just leave it at that you know one of my close friends.
Speaker 3:Uh and yeah you know, like that's just something I rattled off that day, yeah, and it stuck with him, you know, and and he does have a hard time with change and like, like, if you're in the same business for 10 years, like, things change, change. You got to move people around and you know, zach's the person I try to move the least because he has the hardest time with it. But, yeah, we've had to make changes and, uh, I think Zach's love for me and the tattoo world have allowed him to be like all right, I got to go with the flow on this and he's gone with the flow with it. Oh, yeah, that's exactly what we got from him. Yeah, and he's, you know, like I've known him for a decade or more Like we're all changing. Yeah, like, yeah, that's like a brother.
Speaker 2:They're like brothers, y'all are like, or son, however the fuck you want that's how we used to oh, my God this motherfucker is the Fucking Zach.
Speaker 3:But do you have a quote that resonates with you? You know what? I don't have a quote per se, but I think we all stand on the shoulders of greater men, and so it kind of goes in line with what we've been talking about for the last hour or whatever. And that is what is happiness. And one of my favorite teachers, the Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh he has a really good definition for me of what happiness is. And so let's think about life as a two-sided coin. Like everything in our life, in this cosmos, anything we've been able to figure out, has two sides to it, like you can't look at something and not know that it has another side. And so his example or way to illustrate what happiness is is think of life as a two-sided coin, and on one side of that coin is joy, like straight up joy, like whatever that is for you, that's that brings you joy, and whatever that joy is. The flip side of that joy is suffering, like there's an even amount of suffering with the amount of joy.
Speaker 3:Maybe they're not always even, but like without joy, you can't like without suffering, you don't get joy.
Speaker 3:Without joy, there's no suffering and so like go back to what we were talking about with my friend Tobias Crabtree that died. Like that was so life-changing for me and I still hold on to it because I had so much joy there with that individual in my life but it also brought me so much suffering, like I had an even amount of joy and suffering. And so life is that coin of joy and suffering. It's how you can balance it. That's happiness. So you hold that coin in your hand and you get to decide if it's going to be joy side up or suffering side up, and it's your juggling of that joy and suffering in your life. That is happiness. Like that's happiness.
Speaker 1:That's perfect.
Speaker 3:Yeah man, yeah Thanks, tick not on. Hey thanks man.
Speaker 1:All right, something we wanted to start doing. We're going to start doing it with you. Uh, we usually give a little something, um, to our guests. Uh, so we wanted to do it on the air. Um, yes, we toss in just a sketchbook, throw in some stickers and, again, amazon gift cards. Amazon's got everything. Can't really go wrong with it. Awesome man, Appreciate it. We really appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2:Definitely B. We're bringing a lot of our guests on for round two. That'll probably be season two. There's more I want from you for sure. Um, uh, we spoke about bringing Keneally on with you guys, Cause I like that interaction that you guys have, I think, between us we can definitely get some fun.
Speaker 3:more people that I'd like to hear some interviews of.
Speaker 2:Thank you again. Um success to you and your business in the near future. You guys are killing it over here. I'm watching with a tight eye. You know you guys are my competitors at this point, but you know so I'm out here giving the hell, thank you. Tell the the missus, I said hello. Tell Canon I said hello and just thanks be. You know you're a good dude. I feel like people, you know, because they don't get to see the inside. You know, I've had an opportunity to see that this is a lion. You know what I mean, but he's chill. You just got to catch him on the right fucking day. You feel me, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me on. Thank you.